Why You Should Become An Imperial, Not A Stormcloak

In the game Skyrim, you’re given the option to either side with the Imperials or the Stormcloaks. Skyrim is one province of the continent of Tamriel, on planet Nirn, upon which the Elder Scrolls games are based. The Stormcloaks are “true” Nords of the Skyrim region who wish to freely worship Talos, and hold this as their primary reason for fighting the Imperials. The Imperials are a kind of police that enforce the laws of the Cyrodiil, of which Skyrim is one part. The Imperials were at war with the Elves at one point, and as a concession in a treaty for peace, decided to permit the Thalmor (a religious clan of Elves) to police Skyrim in search of Talos-worshippers in what amounts to a ban on Talos worship. The Imperials never or rarely enforce the ban, and desire free Talos worship as much, if not more, as do the Stormcloaks. The Thalmor enforce the ban because they believe Talos is not a god, and Talos-worship amounts to idolatry of a man, since they assert a man cannot become a god. The Nords believe Talos did become a god.

That said, in the game, I believe you should side with the Imperials, not the Stormcloaks. Here’s why.

The Imperials and the Stormcloaks are united in their desire to make Talos worship a right of every Nord, but the Stormcloaks refuse to admit it. The Imperials only agreed to the ban (that they only rarely or never enforce — only the Thalmor enforce it) as a bargaining chip to end the war with the Elves.

The Stormcloaks are a cluster of poorly organized lay-abouts, who just sit about and moan about how they can’t worship Talos out in the open like they used to, with the Thalmor roaming the neighborhood. However, instead of attacking the Thalmor directly — which are far fewer in number and are essentially there only because the Imperials have a treaty to let them in.. the Stormcloaks decide to attack the Imperials of their own blood. WHY?

Can’t you see that the Imperials are surely using this treaty as a strategy against the Thalmor, to let them in, and then suddenly make the strike? They can’t contact their Elven brethren when they’re way out in Riften or someplace, so that would be a prime opportunity to commit a fatal blow, an “Order 66″ as it were, against the Elves while their backs are turned believing themselves to be in security from attack, when instead the Imperials are simply sharpening their swords and lacing them with Drain Magicka poisons. The Stormcloaks are totally messing up the plan.

The best plan, if the Stormcloaks could actually think for a second, unlike the meat-head Ah-nold stereotypes they appear to be, is to become an Imperial, rise up through the ranks, and then sucker-punch the Thalmor with a surprise attack that will shatter their foothold and turn the tide widely into Nord favor. The Stormcloaks should be in support of Imperial efforts, not hampering it with their incessant whining and poorly-organized attacks that only strengthen the Thalmor advantage!

The Imperials, to use a metaphor, are becoming employees of the Thalmor, but using the money earned from it to buy a poison dagger to stab the Thalmor as they drift off to sleep in the big cushy office chair, believing they’re in safety and power..

Shadow Hide Y… er… Long Live Talos!

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308 thoughts on “Why You Should Become An Imperial, Not A Stormcloak

  1. You are so utterly wrong. The Imperials only agreed to the white-gold concordat and the ban of the worship of Talos to make peace.

    They did this because, the Thalmor nearly had defeated them. The Thalmor were going to win the war, and the Imperials needed something to save their own skin. So they signed the treaty. To let in a few Thalmor enforcers just to kill them, why?

    There aren’t many Thalmor in skyrim, so killing them would prove nothing. To kill the Thalmor in Skyrim would result in again war, and the Thalmor would surely destroy the Empire.

    • It’s in the game that the empire took back imperial city with the help of their red guards and won the war, at devastating costs, but in order to stop future attacks, gave in to thalmor demands like the ban of talos worshipping. And gave away the regulars provinces which they later rebelled and took it back fueling their hatred for the empire. The empire makes mistakes and the stormcloaks don’t help. Too wrongs don’t make a right. If you chose the imperials possibly, you can regain the empires strength and Kick the shite out of those damn elves

      • Not all elves are thalmor, it’s mainly high elves and not all of them like the thalmor. Say thalmor scum not damn elves.
        Elves include high, wood, dark and orc
        Orc and dark elves are not in the dominion and wood elves mainly joined to prevent war in valenwood.

      • @ Fribbit- If you had any kind of reading comprehension, you would notice he said “those damn elves” (referring to the dominion), NOT the entirety of the elven race.

      • Not really the Empire had 25 Years to regain its strength and it bareley regained any stength so how long would it take for the empire to get back on its feet? And plus maybe the stormcloacks might make an alliance with the Redguards and if Highrock secedes from the empire then surely highrock will join the alliance. Theres already the Argonian Alliance and Aldmeri Dominion so all is left is 1 more alliance its all just like Elder Scrolls Online 3 Alliances fighting for a reason.

      • The empire did not win the war, they just agreed to end it. The White-Gold Concordat has almost the exact same demands as the first Ultimatum that Titus Mede II refused to begin the Great War. The Imperial City was regained by the Empire in the Battle of the Red Ring, but only after it had been taken by the Aldmeri Dominion in the first place. They didn’t win, only got the Thalmor to agree to stop at the disadvantage of the forces of man.

    • you are absolutely rigth on two parts. They did sign the concordat because thye wanted peace.

      And killing the thalmor would be like killing Hitlers SS forces, the army is still behind there, ready to kick some butt. In this case The aldmeri dominion.

      You are wrong on one thing. The imperials could have won the war. But in the confusion and big losses they didnt see that it was the aldmeri dominion that was suffering the most. If they could have won they would have taken back the land, even at great costs. But instead since the imperials were thinking they had lost, made them sign the concordat to weaken the empire.

      Me, i have used untold hours playing Skyrim, reading forums, reading books in Skyrim, listened to people in skyrim. Still i have problems picking a side.

      • thats incorrect the only reason the imperials lost is because the thalmor hit them right after the damage that they took when the oblivion crises which happened 200 years before skyrim.The great war was 30 years before skyrim.The imperials didn,t get anough time to recover if they did the aldmeri dominion would have been smashed!!!Also the imperials are playing the thalmor they are waiting to take more land get more numbers then attack summerset isles and then everyone would be free in religion and all land will be part of the empire go to riften they will tell you.

      • In my opinion Elves can never win a war that goes on in length. Simply because man outnumbers them, breeds and grows up at a far higher rate.

    • In Fact you’re both wrong.If you read the books in game and did your homework. You would know that After the Empire recaptured the Imp. City they began a counter offensive against the Thalmor. And in fact could have prolonged the war but on elfish territory and maybe even won the war. But he wanted to end the fighting at once and so signed the treaty at a position of power. And just as a side note, if you did the Final DB quests (SPOILER) you would find an amulet of Talos on him.

      The Legion in Skyrim? ya that’s not the entire Imperial Army. That is in truth a small detachment sent at the request of the emperor.
      most of the Legion is tied up at the border in case of a thalmor assault. So images this; the Legion must punch the Thalmor in front of them, and kick the Stormcloaks behind them while standing on one foot.

      • You clearly did not do your homework cause if you did you would know that rhe empire did not take back the imp city alone they had help from the red guards… They needed help to take down a small regiment of the thalmor not the entire army… And yes they would have prolonged the war for the time it takes them to march to the enemy and die by their hands… The empire signed the treaty not to end the war but to save their own asses… The empire would never beat the aldimeri diminion because the empire is to weak and pathetic….

      • You clearly did not do your homework cause if you did you would know that rhe empire did not take back the imp city alone they had help from the red guards… They needed help to take down a small regiment of the thalmor not the entire army… And yes they would have prolonged the war for the time it takes them to march to the enemy and die by their hands… The empire signed the treaty not to end the war but to save their own asses… The empire would never beat the aldimeri diminion because the empire is too weak and pathetic….

      • You clearly did not do your homework cause if you did you would know that rhe empire did not take back the imp city alone they had help from the red guards… They needed help to take down a small regiment of the thalmor not the entire army… And yes they would have prolonged the war for the time it takes them to march to the enemy and die by their hands… The empire signed the treaty not to end the war but to save their own asses… The empire would never beat the aldimeri diminion because the empire is too weak and pathetic…. Go do your homework!!!

      • You clearly did not do your homework cause if you did you would know that rhe empire did not take back the imp city alone they had help from the red guards… They needed help to take down a small regiment of the thalmor not the entire army… And yes they would have prolonged the war for the time it takes them to march to the enemy and die by their hands… The empire signed the treaty not to end the war but to save their own asses… The empire would never beat the aldimeri diminion because the empire is too weak and pathetic…. Go do your homework!!! Cause you actually did not…

    • He said that the Imperials did so.

      You are right about the Thalmor nearly winning the war.

      Plus, Ulfric and the Nords in general are idiots. Ulfric strayed away from the way of the voice, thus being slayed by the dragonborn. In the afterlife in Sovengard, he regrets it and Galmar cursed the dragonborn. But after the defeat of alduin, they praise the dragonborn and see through their deceit.

      Ulfric was an asset to the Thalmor. Stormcloaks also have peas for brains, but plenty of braun. Stormcloak control over Skyrim, talos worship freely will cause yet another elf war, something the nords hate. But with Ulfric, if he taught the thuum to his comrades, then Skyrim would be a dangerous country indeed.

      Plus, the emperor may be corrupt, but it has been the server for Nir since the beginning of time.

      • The Emperor is NOT corrupt. What did he do that made him corrupt? Titus II is a hero, though not as much as Tiber, Dovahkiin or Martin. In 4E 175, the imperial city was COMPLETELY overrun. The Altmer were thinking they won. Word was that Titus II was killed. But Titus was secretly travelling between Bruma (Cyrodiil) and Falkreath (Skyrim), recruiting Nordic and Imperial warriors alike. And with some help from the Alik’r, he killed ALL the thalmor in Cyrodiil, maybe even commited genocide. But since the empire was devastated, he signed the treaty to stop the bloodshed and rebuild the empire. Ulfrik and his puppets call him corrupt caus of the concordat but he was a hero.

    • I LOVE killing Imperials! Every time my Ebony warhammer crushes the skull of one of Tullius’ ‘boys’ I feel all warm inside :) Because the Empire is weak, they are cowards who sold out Skyrim out of fear. It’s better to die on your feet with your God in your heart… Than live on your knees with nothing.

      • I love killing stormcloaks. Every time my wabbajack turns one of those Ulfric’s boys into sweetrolls :O I feel all warm inside :) Because the Stormcloaks are retards, they are idiots who are weakening humankind. It’s better to plan the future and have a long-term glory…..Than yell VICTORY OR SOVNGRAD and only have a shot-term glory (until elenwen finds out XD)

      • Actually they didnt really sell out skyrim. they sold out hammerfell if anything. They just banned talos worshiping which pissed off skyrim.

    • okay, based on everything you said we should all pretend to play nice and side with the imperials. I would object based simply on the ideal of my character being a true nord. Facing the enemy up close and personal and telling them i won’t bow down to their ideals. Perhaps it’s because i play as a nord but simply put i won’t pretend to be nice to an enemy faction to wait for them to make a mistake. I don’t agree with Ulfric entirely or his contempt for other races but i admire his courage to stand for what he believes in and i believe he should stand up for the right to worship talos.

      • He doesn’t care about Skyrim or Talos. If he did he wouldn’t try to destroy skyrim, KILL leagues of his OWN KINSMEN, or mess up the imperial plan on destroying the thalmor. BTW, the imperials also respect and worship Talos. Titus II wears an amulet of talos.

    • Uhm you are the one that is wrong. the tide of battle was turned and the imperials could have possibly won the war. Just look at how hammerfell was able to beat the dominion right after the great war. Hammerfell was apart of the the empire during the great war thats one province that was able to force the thalmor to retreat and give up their goals.

      if the great war continued the dominion would have had to deal with four provinces. Hammerfell, high rock, skyrim, and cyrodil. the only province that was really war torn was cyrodil and the dominion suffered alot of losses. not to mention what I said earlier about hammerfell being able to submit the dominion by it’s self

      • What is so difficult in choosing bw ulfrik and tullius? Tullius tried to kill you and you want revenge. Isn’t it straightforward? Why think of skyrim, empire or thalmor? How do they concern you? Why should you try to be a hero for the people at your own cost? Every relation is a give and take relation. You should help others only if u expect them to help you. I am ready to side with anyone who will kill Tulius and give me more benefits. If thalmor promised to make me a jarl of a hold, I would even support them

    • HERE ARE THE FACTS OF THE MATTER: Nords and Imperials and indeed other races all joined shields to retake the imperial city (as stated in-game). It wasn’t enough; the forces of man were exhausted (as stated in-game) – the emperor, in his foresight, wisely signs a peace treaty, in order to save the empire from utter genocide and elven tyranny (white gold concordat) so that they can fight another day against the Thalmor (as stated in-game by General Tullius and Thalmor operatives during the main quest- this is the Imperials intent all along and it isn’t a secret to anyone).

      MEANWHILE, an upstart militia leader (Ulfric Stormcloak) decides to answer a bounty-call from the Imperials, who need help regaining Markarth from the native reachmen, who took control in the absence of Imperial soldiers recalled to fight the elves. He successfully does this and commits atrocities in the aftermath (as stated by the in=game book, ‘the Bear of Markarth’). When the Imperials return, ULFRIC DENIES THEM ENTRY AND THEY ARE FORCED TO ALLOW HIM FREE TALOS WORSHIP- the elven dominion finds out after the W-GC is signed and the empire is forced to arrest Ulfric (The Markarth Incident)

      Then, this same upstart militia leader decides to wage a war, mainly because of the banning of Talos. Yet, despite the fact that nords and Imperials all fought and died together against the elves (as well as LOST THE WAR together)- and despite the fact the Thalmor are the ones enforcing their rules on the rest of Tamriel, after their joined defeat and unanimous call for treaty-

      the ‘Stormcloak’ terrorists decide to kill the High King of Skyrim in a coup disguised as ‘fair combat’ (a nice phrase to politically guard him from the fact that he new he would win), start taking over their own homeland, and traitorously killing any and all Imperials (and anyone else who won’t fight for them, as stated in-game by the aforementioned book- a classic sign of a ‘terrorist’ by real life standards).

      The entire reasoning behind their battling the Imperials is flawed and utterly nonsensical. If they wanted to restore talos worship, they would simply form an Army of Skyrim and wait for the Imperial rally call, or go join with Hammerfell, or BOTH. instead the stormcloak ‘uprising’ is about wrestling power from the Imperials (no doubt bolstered by his emotional response as a result of the Markarth Incident) and giving it to himself for his own designs- and, just like any real life terrorist group, he uses religious zealotry and crafty word play to create a small legion of brainwashed, borderline racist and incredibly nationalist insurgents, significant enough in their misguided delusions to rival any Al-Qaeda affiliate. ALLUHU TALOS AKBAR!

    • HERE ARE THE FACTS OF THE MATTER: Nords and Imperials and indeed other races all joined shields to retake the imperial city (as stated in-game). It wasn’t enough; the forces of man were exhausted (as stated in-game) – the emperor, in his foresight, wisely signs a peace treaty, in order to save the empire from utter genocide and elven tyranny (white gold concordat) so that they can fight another day against the Thalmor (as stated in-game by General Tullius and Thalmor operatives during the main quest- this is the Imperials intent all along and it isn’t a secret to anyone).

      MEANWHILE, an upstart militia leader (Ulfric Stormcloak) decides to answer a bounty-call from the Imperials, who need help regaining Markarth from the native reachmen, who took control in the absence of Imperial soldiers recalled to fight the elves. He successfully does this and commits atrocities in the aftermath (as stated by the in=game book, ‘the Bear of Markarth’). When the Imperials return, ULFRIC DENIES THEM ENTRY AND THEY ARE FORCED TO ALLOW HIM FREE TALOS WORSHIP- the elven dominion finds out after the W-GC is signed and the empire is forced to arrest Ulfric (The Markarth Incident)

      Then, this same upstart militia leader decides to wage a war, mainly because of the banning of Talos. Yet, despite the fact that nords and Imperials all fought and died together against the elves (as well as LOST THE WAR together)- and despite the fact the Thalmor are the ones enforcing their rules on the rest of Tamriel, after their joined defeat and unanimous call for treaty-

      the ‘Stormcloak’ terrorists decide to kill the High King of Skyrim in a coup disguised as ‘fair combat’ (a nice phrase to politically guard him from the fact that he new he would win), start taking over their own homeland, and traitorously killing any and all Imperials (and anyone else who won’t fight for them, as stated in-game by the aforementioned book- a classic sign of a ‘terrorist’ by real life standards), EVEN THOUGH IT WAS THE IMPERIALS WHO DID THE MAJORITY OF FIGHTING AND TOOK THE HEAVIEST LOSSES FROM THE THALMOR.

      The entire reasoning behind their battling the Imperials is flawed and utterly nonsensical. If they wanted to restore talos worship, they would simply form an Army of Skyrim and wait for the Imperial rally call, or go join with Hammerfell, or BOTH. instead the stormcloak ‘uprising’ is about wrestling power from the Imperials (no doubt bolstered by his emotional response as a result of the Markarth Incident) and giving it to himself for his own designs- and, just like any real life terrorist group, he uses religious zealotry and crafty word play to create a small legion of brainwashed, borderline racist and incredibly nationalist insurgents, significant enough in their misguided delusions to rival any Al-Qaeda affiliate. ALLUHU TALOS AKBAR!

      • “Ur hur, sturmclurks ur racist lol nop”

        In case you haven’t noticed, EVERY RACE IN SKYRIM THINKS THEY’RE SUPERIOR TO THE OTHERS IN SOME WAY OR ANOTHER.

        Imperials obviously wouldn’t have the audacity to try and conquer territories if they didn’t think themselves to be superior! They’re directly based off of Ancient Rome in that sense.

        The Aldmeri Dominion doesn’t require ANY explanation whatsoever on this topic.

        The Redguards and Bretons think they’re superior to the Orismer.

        The Dwemer ENSLAVED the Falmer back when Falmer were actually civilized collectively.

        The Nords are only “racist” towards elves because they are still vengeful for the Night of Tears, in which a large group of then-civilized Falmer sacked Saarthal and killed all the Atmorans except for Ysgrammor and his two sons.

    • The thalmor havent fully recovered from the great war, if you know your lore elves take ALOT longer to meture than humans, and thus theres not alot of man power over in alinor

  2. This article has a few valid points but its not entirely true. The imperials are a crumbling empire who are a fraction of what thet used to be. I have played The Elder Scrolls IV: Oblivion and Elder Scrolls V: Skyrim and have noticed a major difference in the attititute and morals of the imperials. If you play the game , you may notice in entering cities that imperials will attempt to take your coin as a entrance to the city and when you exploit this act for being a shakedown they let you in before you make a scene. They are not what the used to be. Stormcloaks are a group of natives of Skyrim and have been their the longest. They will end up being the stronger of the 2 groupd. If you talk to Ulfric Stormcloak, you may be able to bring up a question asking him why he killed the imperial emperor supposedly with a shout.He will explain that “how can a emperor defend and have a sucessful army when he cannot defend himself. Skyrim needs a strong leader both in war and leadership. Ulfric has those capabilities. There may be an ounce of racism with Ulfric but he has good plans.

    • Samm you’re completely wrong about the Imperials trying to take your coin, that happens in Riften. The Rift is under Stormcloak control, not Imperial, not to mention if you do the Thieves guild quest and talk to Brynjolf to start entry into the thieves guild. He says he thinks you are right for the job because you knew his man was trying to shake you down at the front gate. The guard that tries this is revealed to be neither Stormcloak nor Imperial but a Thieves guild operative. “how can an emperor defend and have a sucessful army when he cannot defend himself.” We all know how powerful a Thu’um is, especially Fus Ro Dah which would completely stun somebody and knock them far back onto the ground, this is the Thu’um Ulfric has, if he used this on the High King (its not the emperor of Skyrim but the high King, emperor is ruler of all of Tamriel) there’s no way he would have been able to defend himself. I am not saying I disagree with the Stormcloaks entirely but in these matters you were mistaken.

      • well you are right except the emperor only rules Cyrodiil, Skyrim (depending who wins the war) and High rock the others are under the rule of Thalmor, Redguards or Argonians

      • Exactly. But if the stormcloaks stopped being arrogant, and joined forces with the legion. Then they would kick major ass. The stormcloaks have a good army, but completely rely on guerrilla tactics. But if they went head on with a band of legionnaires they would lose. Why! Because the imperials actually have an organized and well put together army/empire plus they have actual tactics.

    • Actually, Samm, the only city that does that isRiften, andRiften is controlled by Stormcloaks when that happens. Get your facts straight before you make a fool of yourself. He didn’t kill the Imperial Emporer (That’s the Dark Brotherhood’s job xD ) He killed the High King of Skyrim- just to become the high King himself. Ulfric is an egotistical, racist, self-loving idiot who doesn’t give a skeevertail about Talos. He only wants to be High King.

      • Riften is a Stormcloak city at the time, but the guard who shakes you down is a Thieves’ Guild operative. Besides, I’d rather be racist than sexist. Stormcloaks actually have female guards in their cities. Imperials don’t. There are few Imperials in their army that are female, only one or two from what I’ve seen, and all of the guards in Solitude are male. About half the guards in Windhelm, the Stormcloak capital, are female.

      • Actually, I have sided with the Stormcloaks and defeated the Imperials. Ulfric is given the chance of becoming the High King of Skyrim, but he refuses.

      • Jamie you do realize that the chick who gives you all the Imperial quests (your immediate boss), is a chick, right…? Legate Rikke? Seems to be second-in-command to General Tullius. The Imperial army in Skyrim has a woman bossing them around, and you’re saying they’re sexist? xD

    • Ulfric Stormclock’s quote, “How can a emperor defend and have a successful army when he can not defend himself?” as justification for killing the High King and supporting the Stormcloak cause, is not a very good argument. Abraham Lincoln and JFK were assassinated, yet no one doubts that they were strong leaders just because they were mortal. A whole army cannot be considered weak just because a sniper bullet got past some bodyguards.

      Ulfric called what he did a “duel”, but it was little better than an assassination by treacherous use of a hidden weapon. He, himself, tells the player that he begun the duel with a thu’um to gain powerful advantage. It was extreme method to make a point that could of been otherwise made by cunning, persuasion with the support of the other 3 or so Jarls that agree with him, or an honest fight. Even the guards of his city refer to his action as “murder”.

      One could argue that the late High King was tactless by accepting the duel, but on the other hand, ignoring the challenge would have been the more condemning mark of a weak leader. There was much to gain by accepting and winning the duel, and for all we know, he might have been a great fighter with a good chance at winning, if had not been for the shout. There is good reason to believe that few people, if any, knew of Ulfric’s abilities before the duel; there is no record of him using it before or since, he suggests that he studied the method alone, and guards everywhere recount the gossip with shock. If the High King had known, he would have most likely reacted differently. There is also the possibility that he was forced into the “duel”. Regardless, there is no evidence that he was a terribly weak or horrible leader to have deserved such a fate.

      Ulfric’s statement makes him come across as a callous leader, which can be worse in some ways than an in-influential leader. But I guess that is for each player to decide.

      • While I agree with your statement for the most part… You are wrong about nobody knowing about Ulfric’s ability to use shouts. He re-took Markarth after they were overrun by the Reachmen. Ulfric (quote) “shouted them of the walls of Markarth” (Skyrim Book “The Bear of Markarth). So the High King knew of Ulfric’s ability, he even is said to have agreed with Ulfric about the Thalmor. He just felt that he had to accept Ulfric’s challenge like a “true” nord.

    • No. That happens in riften, and riften’s a stormcloak city. And even if it WAS an imperial city (SPOILERS)- It was a costume.

    • The empire in oblivion I am sure would have been a match for the ad anyday. However they lost alot in the oblivion crisis not to mention the true dragonborn emporers. This is obviously went down hill if they were allowed to reform with a true leader the current dragonborn then they could beat these virtual nazis

  3. Powerful point at the end General Tullius gives you a hint after you take over the Stormcloak Capital that there will be some sort of plan to attack the Thalmor to push them out of skyrim and to soon go to war again. Which I hope will be an exspansion pack. The Battle For Tamriel.

    • Actually, that happened to me in solitude by imperials. And the empire wouldn’t last a night against the full attacks of the thalmor, and the storm cloaks are just trying to regain the strength to repel them because the empire no longer has the strength to.

      • Yeah, of course the stormcloaks r trying to regain the strenght. No wonder they started the war, and killed many men and women who would’ve been usefull against the thalmor if they attack again.
        Face it genius the only people that r trying to regain strength are the imperials.

    • Oh god- really? Well, Melerdius’ universe is pooped upon by a giant skeever… but hey, why should he care about riften if he is just a mage?

    • I won’t say that I like Maven. She is not a nice person. Still, she is the equivalent (in my eyes at least) of a female mob boss. She has her hand in everything. With her in charge of the Rift, no one would @#@# with them.

    • And if you go Stormcloak, you put the Silver-Bloods in charge of Markarth.

      You get one asshole Jarl no matter what you do.

      • Silver-Bloods or Maven Black-Briar? LOL, easy pick there…

        Only if you’ve played through The Forsworn Conspiracy though >(. Maven Black-Briar somewhat backs you up and even gets slightly intimidated by you after your coronation for your Thieves Guild Leadership and as you become a Thane. The Thieves Guild, for some reason have a strange ‘vigilante underground’ feel to em (since it’s made obvious that they’re STRICTLY against murder, which puts them on the ‘righteous crime’ scale instantly – if you’ve played through the main questline for em, like with all the talk about honor when you (SPOILER) kill the former leader, who turns out to be a backstabbing SOB, and there’s Brynjolf’s “Crime is one thing, murder is another” line, one of my favorites, lol.

        But the Silver-Bloods, f***! You get put in JAIL FOR LIFE (and this is forced on you), just for trying to solve a murder case? Maven just likes to have her business going, and pulls a few tricks here and there, but the only people she’s screwed over – you’ll notice – are complete assholes, some guy who attempted murder, and bandits.

        Bottomline is, Maven gives the impression of a pretentious bitch (she -is- a pretentious bitch), but she’s just a businesswoman. The Silver-Bloods are corrupt and deceitful to the core, just richass bandit conspirators.

  4. Just so you know; Skyrim, Morrowind, Cyrodiil, High Rock, Elsweyr, Black Marsh, Valenwood, Summerset Isle, and Hammerfell are all provinces in the continent of Tamriel. Tamriel is one continent on the planet called Nirn. The Elder Scrolls do not all take place in Cyrodiil. TES IV: Oblivion is Cyrodiil. TES takes place in Tamriel.

    • Your link is inoperable, and you are incorrect. Ulfric is a Thalmor operative and only wages war to weaken the Empire and increase his own power at the expense of all Tamriel. The Aldmeri Dominion needs to be hunted down and destroyed. They are the tES version of Nazi Germany: obsession with “superiority” at the expense of the “lesser races” as they refer to them. Check your shit before you allow yourself to fall for a cult-of personality.

  5. I agree with most of this, save for the fact that you think the Imperials are trying to let them into Skyrim to “stab them in the back.” I think the Imperials only signed the treaty to save their skin. What is obvious though is that the Stormcloaks are a bane on all of Skyrim and all they are doing is weakening an already weakened Empire. It’s obvious why the Thalmor made the White-Gold Concordat. Skyrim was one of the provinces and allies of the Empire, and Nords are generally very proud of their heritage and culture. The Thalmor banned the worship of Talos (a Nord who became a god) to upset all the Nords and cause them to fight with the Empire, weakining it even further. Stormcloaks are just Thalmor puppets, whether they realize it or not. Though the Empire lost to the Aldmeri Dominion, if there is anyone out there who would be able to stand against the Thalmor again, it would be the Empire and the Thalmor know this, which is why they’re trying to turn weaken the Empire by turning it’s former allies against it. That’s why i don’t trust Ulfric. Whereas Tulius’ motives seem to be more genuine in that he just wants the civil war over, Ulfric seems to be fighting for the whole “glory and honor” story which appeals to all of the proud Talos worshiping Nords. Even when faced with death, he wants the Dragonborn to kill him to make for a “better story.” probably to make him a martyr for the Nords to rally around. In conclusion, the true bad-guy in this event is clearly the elven supremacist Thalmor and it seems all too convenient that even though the Imperials and Nords all want to worship Talos, that the Stormcloaks would take the fight to the Empire and not become united with the Empire and fight the Thalmor. For this reason i think that Ulfirc Stormcloak is either…
    1. Really really really stupid if he can’t see that he is a Thalmor puppet.
    2.Working alongside the Thalmor to destroy the Empire and is toying with the people in the Stormcloak rebellion who honestly believe their cause is true.

    • If you read the Thalmor Dossier about ulfric Stormcloak (Found in a chest in the Thamor Embassy quest) it says that both sides ARE thalmor puppets.

      • Yep. Now take it one step further…

        What are the best/worst outcomes for the Thalmor? Ranked in descending order:
        1. The Imperial/Stormcloak conflict continues indefinitely, weakening the Empire and enabling the Thalmor to fully conquer it. This is what they want.
        2. The Stormcloaks are defeated at great cost, weakening the Empire and leaving Skyrim sullen and unwilling to lend much support to the Empire against the Thalmor. Not bad.
        3. The Stormcloaks win and the Thalmor lose all influence over Skyrim. The Empire is weakened greatly. Thalmor plans for global domination are ruined, and their victory over the Imperial capital, purchased at such great price, loses much of its meaning. Skyrim becomes an independent state extremely hostile to Thalmor interests, with the Empire in the middle.

        #3 is clearly the the worst outcome for the Thalmor. And the Thalmor are @#)%*@’s. That’s why you should pick Stormcloak.

        In general, people trying to achieve world rule don’t like fragmentation of political sovereignty.

        QED.

    • i just thought of something….. what if ulfric was really with the thlamor and he is lying to the stormcloaks so that once he becomes high king if the stormcloaks win.. he lets the thalmor in and take over everything.. so ulfric becomes high king with the thalmor by his side and they take over skyrim. 0.0

    • with regards to this the dosier clearly states that an empire victory is not wanted nor on the other hand is a storm cloak, it states that ulfric gave up on the thalmor after they arrested him and his men, …. the thalmor betrayed him as it was their plan for him to attack markarth … it states that the continuation of the war is their main goal .. if your gonna go imperial be thieves guild because all other guild or factions are aimed at stormcloaks, DB – kill emperor , companons – vilkas when asked about the war says abit about letting these stormcloak milk drinkers have alll the fun .. also they are desecnded from ysgamor so therefore hate elves …. and finally the mages guild hated yes by nords but you have to kill 2 thalmor members !! – the whole storyline pushes towards the stormcloaks !! even the blades … when added this with the downloadable content imagine the dragonborn who is able to ride dragons and commanded it to attack foes, leading the forces of nords against the thalmor with the redgaurd friends you made when you handed over saadia oh and the friends you make in house redoran when completing the dlc dragonborn …. also the blades are able to grow under a free skyrim, and then you have vampire hunters you i mean come on !!! battle trolls !!! as harbringer of companions you have the respect of the jarls …… and oh if you become head of the thieves guild and DB maven black briar is basically your bitch !!

  6. Don’t forget Ullfric is racist and fighting to keep other races out of Skyrim. Also on the benefits side the Legion offers better armor and they also have a larger force of men to fight with. The stormcloaks have little heavy armor and are barely better equipped than a city guard. Although the Imperials tend to be fighting melee with one sword and not a shield too, the storm cloaks are all for two handed weapons. The stormcloaks are racist, ill equipped to fight the elves, weakening Skyrim and the Empire, are playing right into the thalmors hands, and are in need of the Empires assets. For Nordic pride, the Empire was created by the most famous Nord, Tiber Septim,wouldnt they want the empire to stay nordic?

    • Not sure if I would brand Ulfric as a racist. A religious fanatic perhaps, and certainly with strong misplaced national honor, but no matter which race the dragonborn belongs to he welcomes him/her with open arms and threats you no differently. But there’s certainly conflicting evidence. As pointed out by members of his own staff he never lifts a finger if skyrim citizens not belonging to the Nord race is killed/attacked, but sound the war horn the minute it happens to nords. Now, as with most aspects of this game, it’s all rather ambigious, and everyone who tells you something is always telling it from their own perspective, perhaps with lies and exaggerations. But the evidence does seem to support the subtractors, but I don’t think that the stormcloaks as a whole is racist in that sense, at least no more than most of the other races shown in-game, certainly not more than the High Elf supremacists. But of course, there’s a thin line between nationalism and racism. I must say though, I love how ambigious and realistic Bethesda crafted Skyrim, it’s truly food for thought.

      • You hear the Dark Elf say it herself the minute you step into Windhelm:

        “But it’s not our fight.”

        Why should Nords bleed for other races, when the other races won’t bleed for them?

        Now I play an Orc, on the ACE mod that makes being a melee Uruk-Hai actually entertaining. So I’m just following the code of Malacanth when I join Ulfric’s cause.

        If you try to kill an Orc, be sure to finish the job.

    • The empire isn’t more a Nordic Army. Why? Actually exist the Race “Imperial” and “Nord” then the Imperial Army its no more Nordic. Have e created by a Nord, but isn’t more.

  7. I don’t care who is right or wrong, who is a racist or who has a plan to defeat the Thalmor, who fights for freedom or for profit, I don’t like any of the two factions, but the damn imperials tried to chop my head off at the beginning of the game and that’s reason enough to give them the finger. Anyway, no offense, but I’m going to ignore this “Why You Should Become An Imperial, Not A Stormcloak” thing, I paid for my copy of Skyrim and that gives me the right to join whatever faction I want, right?

    • It was all a big misunderstanding though- they only captured you because they wanted the Stormcloaks. In a roundabout way, the Stormcloaks are responsible for your capture and would-be execution.

      • The dragonborn and the thief were obviously two completely innocent individuals who just happened to be in the same area, it was quite clear to everyone involved, particularly if the dragonborn isn’t a nord. This shows the mercilessness of the empire, but if the situation was reversed I doubt the Stormcloaks would have acted differently, and even if they had not they’d still be the lesser choice. But don’t tell that to my first skyrim character, he’d chop your head off.

      • This is the typical government overreaction that guerrilla movements intentionally generate, thus further driving the civilian population to support the guerrilla movement.

        However, there is absolutely zero evidence of any Stormcloak atrocity or even failure to wear uniforms, so the Empire’s overreaction is unjustified.

        Mostly I just like wearing that short dyke @#$%’s hat for 10 levels. Good stats… thanks Bethesda.

  8. The stinking imperials tried to cut my head off at the beginning. So now I kill every imperial I can find. How annoying that some of them are immortal, so I cant wipe Skyrim free of them! I’m not a fan of the Stormcloaks either. I just slightly prefer them to the Imperials. The makers of Skyrim are using realism with the politics in this game. There is no “good” or “bad” side. Each side is mostly concerned with power-being able to tell others what they can or cant do. It’s the same thing in many countries in real life. In America, most intelligent people dont like Democrats or Republicans. They are both filthy, terrible organizations, filled with liars (politicians) who will tell you anything to gain power (get elected). All you can do is pick the lesser of two evils.

    • Several problems with your totally retarded arguments:

      (a) *One* Imperial ordered an executioner to cut off your head at the beginning. The executioner is merely employed by whomever needs his services. The person you have ire against is the person who ordered you to be beheaded, not the executioner. Go kill that lady or whatever. If your neighbor mows over your rose bushes by mistake, do you go to your OTHER neighbors and mow theirs down? No, you take issue with the neighbor that did it. It was within the power of the commander who ordered your death to also abstain from such orders. But then again, you do have the intelligence and capacity for rational thought of a Stormcloak, so go on then! Join up with those moany losers!

      (b) “All you can do is pick the lesser of two evils” — NO! You can actually get involved with your government LIKE YOU SHOULD BE DOING ALREADY, instead of just voting once every so often, and then moaning like a lazy Stormcloak, blah-blah-politicians-blah-blah-evil. You sir, have the neuropathways of an Egg McMuffin. I would not advise you to ever vote in any future elections.

      • I love your post. I like seeing that other people think this way as well. I’m rather annoyed by those who lay back, do nothing, blame government, and repeat. I’d prefer to see some proactivity in politics.

        Referring back to Chris’s post. I’m noticing similar patterns to that of genocidal rulers, with the thirst of killing all imperials, whether innocent or not.

      • It’s a little hard to get in the politics and government unless you have money you fool. Not to mention the police state we live in. Ugh. Getting involved with the American ‘government’ is easy for one to say, hard to actually do. Got a million+ dollars? Don’t give me OWS bull crap either. That’s a JOKE.

    • I was originally a storm cloak but when I did read ulfrics dossier I was appalled I hate thalmor so I retired tht player turned imperial supporter and realized in the lore of tes nords are pretty much the empire after the slave queens kingdom fell a group of nords adapted and became the imperials and if you look at most great emperors they were nords fuel for thought

  9. Just saying on the fact about riften no matter who owns it you still get stopped, bc its neither stormcloak or imperial its just one of brynofls thieves guild lackies dressed as a storm cloak and as for the execution the one imperial makes a statement on you arent on the list but yet the commander still sends you to the block just shows how corrupt and evil the stupid legion really is and honestly they deserve to ne destroyed I mean they were almost completely wiped out in the great war and if they got their ass beat once I don’t think they are Very strong at all and the imperial are just slaves to the thalmor and are looking to get their own slaves by taking over skyrim. Its like us China has us by the balls bc everything here is made by them so ya know we go bully other third world countries for their oil its just how things work.

  10. I have sided with the Imperials, but i don’t fully agree with what the OP has said here. However, for those who side with the Stormcloaks, i would have a few points to address:

    1. I don’t care about the worship of Talos and i find it a piss poor reason to start a civil war when you clearly have other pressing matters to attend to, like the return of the effin dragons. So yea, while the Stormcloaks are busy crying over how they can’t openly worship Talos, their farms are being burned down and their sons and daughters attacked by dragons.

    2. The Stormcloak rebellion is playing right into the Thalmor plans. They WANT a civil war to exist, because that will ensure the people of Tamriel will never unite and try to overthrow the Aldmeri Dominion. The Thalmor are even talking about sending indirect aid to the Stormcloaks to keep the civil war going. Remember the Latin phrase “divide et impera” (divide and conquer)? That’s exactly what the Thalmor are doing.

    3. Ulfric was a Thalmor prisoner during the Great War. Why would the Thalmor release the war prisoner Ulfric in the first place? To start the rebellion. Mind you, they might have asked for the ban of Talos worship exactly for that reason: because it was the last straw for the proud Nords. This was a sensitive subject to them, Tiber Septim being a war hero, a symbol and all that. The Thalmor gave them the perfect reason to rebel. You think the Thalmor really care about who worships who? That they’re preoccupied with religious goals? I think they’re more concerned with ensuring their supremacy and enslaving human races.

    4. How is a Stormcloak rebellion, which is limited to Skyrim alone and having trouble overthrowing the Imperial Legion in Skyrim (mind you, a Legion that is already weakened and unable to stand up to the Thalmor) going to overthrow the Aldmeri Dominion? In their current shape, neither factions can fight the Aldmeri Dominion and thats exactly what the Thalmor want.

    5. While the Stormcloak rebellion is a separatist faction existing in the country of Skyrim, the Imperial Legion is a force that operates throughout the Empire. That means that even in their weakened state, The Legion has more resources than the Stormcloaks will ever have. They sent one guy – Tullius – to appease the Nords. I bet he’s not the only general they have.

    6. The Legion tries to represent the ideals of peoples throughout Tamriel while the Stormcloaks make it pretty obvious that they only represent the true sons and daughters of Skyrim – the Nords. There are 10 races in the game. What have the Stormcloaks ever done for the elves and the beast races, other than drive them out of the cities or confine them to the slums?

    7. Ulfric is a puppet because he unwittingly plays into the Thalmor plans, not necessarily because he would act on their command. He thinks he’s acting against the Thalmor and he’s too blinded by his pride to see that he’s giving them what they want.

    • in your point #1, you said they should care more about the dragons that the worship of Talos. But, the civil war STARTED before you entered the game. The dragons haven’t even showed up yet. I believe the Stormcloaks are still wrong, but you might want to fix that part of your argument.

      • I’m not totally sure the civil war has even begun yet. Were there any battles fought before you arrived? There were outposts and forts and encampments, but they’re just sitting there being grumpy instead of engaging in warfare. There are little 2v2 kinds of battles I think randomly, but nothing I’d consider an actual war. I think they’re on the *brink* of civil war, and the only real move that has been made was Ulfric’s duel and the Imperial attempted action against him…

    • I appreciate our thoughts. I wanted to add some tidbits not to change your mind, but to continue to aid in your thinking and reasoning.

      You said “I don’t care about the worship of Talos and i find it a piss poor reason to start a civil war when you clearly have other pressing matters to attend to, like the return of the effin dragons…..”

      True, but the dragons return did not have any bearing on the civil war. The war already started before their appearance. Regardless of whether the religion is ‘peaceful’ or even considered ‘weird’ or ‘untrue’, to take away that freedom is a threat to a culture’s existence and foundation. It would be like forcing Atheists to now believe in a diety or forcing Christians to stop worshiping Jesus or Buddhists to forsake Buddha.

      You said “The Stormcloak rebellion is playing right into the Thalmor plans. They WANT a civil war to exist, because that will ensure the people of Tamriel will never unite and try to overthrow the Aldmeri Dominion….”

      That may be true. However, it is the fault of the Imperials to not have the foresight to see the Thalmor’s agenda in the first place. The fact that they did not only strengthens the argument that the existing politicians are weak. I think the Thalmor fear the Skyrim province because it and it’s people are strong. Strong enough to hold out against even them.

      You said “Ulfric was a Thalmor prisoner during the Great War. Why would the Thalmor release the war prisoner Ulfric in the first place? To start the rebellion. Mind you, they might have asked for the ban of Talos worship exactly for that reason: because it was the last straw for the proud Nords…… ”

      You are right. Again, I fault the weak government of the Imperials for not seeing the big picture in this. The fact that they did not or possibly saw what was going to happen and still agreed to the banning of Talos worship shows that they are weak. A weak government means a weak empire which will lead to civil war none the less. The Imperials should have stood their ground during the negotiation process on this. But they did not and they played into the Thalmor’s hands.

      You said “How is a Stormcloak rebellion, which is limited to Skyrim alone and having trouble overthrowing the Imperial Legion in Skyrim….”

      This rebellion is still young because it was Ulric who started it. It is the influence of the Dragonborn, which is part of the Nord culture and belief system, that will determine how the rebellion will play out.

      You said “While the Stormcloak rebellion is a separatist faction existing in the country of Skyrim, the Imperial Legion is a force that operates throughout the Empire….”

      True, and the Stormcloaks are giving this Tallus much grief. Examples of a small nation holding out against bigger ones are all over the world today. We only need to take a look at the Vietnam conflict, the 6 Day War and the various conflicts of the Middle East to see what a little nation can do.

      You said “The Legion tries to represent the ideals of peoples throughout Tamriel while the Stormcloaks make it pretty obvious that they only represent the true sons and daughters of Skyrim – the Nords…..”

      True. What they are doing is wrong. However, these other cultures are not outlawed and banned. The Nord’s right to worship their god is. Their bitterness has affected their reasoning here. Remember, they are bitter and angry at being singled out and rightly so.

      You said “Ulfric is a puppet because he unwittingly plays into the Thalmor plans, not necessarily because he would act on their command. He thinks he’s acting against the Thalmor and he’s too blinded by his pride to see that he’s giving them what they want.”

      This is open to debate. We do not know what will happen to the Imperials or the empire. What this conflict is exposing is how weak the government as a whole is. It is also exposing the call for stronger leaders. Some people call this a rebellion. Others call it a revolution. It depends on the individual’s point of view. It could be the very thing that can cause change. Or it could play right in to the Thalmor’s plans.

      • You said: “What they are doing is wrong. However, these other cultures are not outlawed and banned. The Nord’s right to worship their god is.”

        But they actually did outlaw the Forsworn’s old gods as they were not part of the 9 divines. Ulfric himself lead the attack on Markarth and massacred the majority of them. Those who stood up to fight afterwards, in the same way that the Stormcloaks did got their families and children murdered. Just listen to some of the tales in the Markarth prison.

        And I don’t think the empire can be blamed for signing the treaty. How do you know they did not foresee the rebellion? They might very well have, but signing was their only option of survival.

      • “And the Scrolls have foretold, of black wings in the cold,
        That when brothers wage war come unfurled!
        Alduin, Bane of Kings, ancient shadow unbound,
        With a hunger to swallow the world!” -song of the dragonborn

        I think the return of the dragons has everything to do with the civil war. And I’m pretty sure the Thalmor new all about it (Or at least believed the scrolls were right) No matter what side we chose the Thalmor will destroy all in there way.

    • The Thalmore want the civil war to continue. They DON’T want it to stop.

      If Stormcloaks win, Skyrim becomes like Britain – a stabilizing power preventing continental union. Or worse, like America, leading an eventual reinvasion of the continent.

      Remember, the Thalmor want GLOBAL domination. They think they are the master race.

      The breakup of a Thalmore dominated empire means more national sovereignty for the other races of Tamriel, not less. So Stormcloak is the LESS RACIST option.

      Which is worse – Bubba who wants to West Virginia “far whytes only!” or Hitler who wants “The Aryan master race, and loads of Lebensraum!”

      Rhetorical question.

    • Fully agree with this assessment. I am not sure Ulfric is necessarily “unwitting”. He knows they let him go once, and if Alduin had not interrupted the execution, they probably would have let him go again after the witnesses, i.e. the other prisoners, had all been beheaded. Ulfric’s arrogance is akin to Alduin’s arrogance, so much so that I can’t even like him. Besides, didn’t Talos himself establish the Empire? So isn’t fighting against the Empire actually fighting against Talos? What is Ulfric really up to in that case? I’m much more sympathetic to Queen Elisif, who secretly sent her husband’s horn to the shrine of Talos behind the Thalmor’s back. It seems clear to me that the Empire is paying lip service to the Thalmor until they are strong enough to get rid of them.

    • Ulfric was a Thalmor prisoner during the Great War. Why would the Thalmor release the war prisoner Ulfric in the first place? To start the rebellion. Mind you, they might have asked for the ban of Talos worship exactly for that reason: because it was the last straw for the proud Nords. This was a sensitive subject to them, Tiber Septim being a war hero, a symbol and all that. The Thalmor gave them the perfect reason to rebel. You think the Thalmor really care about who worships who? That they’re preoccupied with religious goals? I think they’re more concerned with ensuring their supremacy and enslaving human races.

      THIS THIS THIS. I am no great political mind in real life. Really. I have no talent for politics. But even I, after traveling Skyrim and asking the right questions picked this up. And I started out pro-Stormcloak. Then I saw what they were about and was not impressed. The Legion at least acts like they have their act together. I still haven’t joined a side and I may not join a side, but anyone who can’t see that Ulfric is as much a puppet as the empire if not more is blind.

    • Why do the stormcloaks not value the other gods who really do matter like mara. Plus talos founded the empire. The stormcloacks are destroying his once perfect creation. You could worship talos secretly surely thats enough. Nobody knows for sure why the imperials banned talos worship. They have had 30 years too launch a counter offensive. It seems obvious to me that the empire is not religious. Ulfric should of steady tried to educate the empire in his ways before using his fist. The empire has it’s good traits but it certainly needs the guidance of a wise and noble man or woman. Talia creation the empire needs help. Then it can be what it once was and then defeat the thalmor. Even die for this cause.

      • I sided with the empire because I believe in the empire but a once I also believe it needs to change it’s ways. The stormcloacks are a lousy bunch with a decent leader. Overall they are no good. Best try and mend and change a once great empire who is the best for the people and is a creation of talos ou of respect for Talos

    • Aren’t you all forgetting one little detail? It’s not just the banning of Talos that started the war, but also the bowing to the Thalmor that made the Stormcloaks mad. They didn’t believe that bowing down to the Thalmor was how the High King of Skyrim should of reacted. Ulfric states that he killed the King because he couldn’t defend himself, nor his own people. When the King bowed to the Thalmor, this just showed that he couldn’t defend Skyrim. The Stormcloaks would rather die than surrender. The banning of Talos was just the last straw for them.

      Another thing, how is Ulfric siding with the Thalmor when he refused to become High King? So he couldn’t be one of their agents. Ulfric fights the Empire because they are too weak to control Skyrim. Ulfric wants Skyrim to be able to defend herself from hostile threats. By fighting the already-defeated Empire (from the Aldmeri Dominion-Empire war), Ulfric has the chance of wiping Thalmor influence from Skyrim after takes it from the Imperials. He’s not playing into Thalmor hands because even if the Empire happened to gain control over Skyrim, they would still be defeated by the Thalmor once they broke the treaty because it happened in the Great War before. Stormcloaks would just be giving the Thalmor a fight that they wouldn’t forget even if they would lose, but they would still have a chance of success of ridding Skyrim of Thalmor influence since there is such little Thalmor there.

  11. The Imperials didn’t let the Thalmor in as part of a secret plot, they did it as a concession to end the war. And that’s a pretty huge concession. Additionally, although the article suggests that the Stormcloaks could join the Legion, rise through the ranks and restart the war, ultimately the Legionnaires don’t decide when they go to war. That’s the decision of the Emperor, the jobs of the high ranking soldiers is to run war, not to decide the foreign policy of the Empire.

    The Thalmor essentially want the civil war to continue. Whether or not the Empire or Stormcloaks win, both sides hate the Aldmeri Dominion and would still be united against its aggression even if Skyrim is otherwise independent. I think that the Empire is probably the ‘better’ side, because the Stormcloaks are racist against the elves, many of which have made Skryim their home, but in terms of fighting the Thalmor it doesn’t matter who the player helps. Ending the civil war is bad for the Thalmor, whichever side you end it for.

    • Late bloomer here, but.. have you considered that the reason why the Stormcloaks appear wary (not quite racist, they are just mistrusting-) being the Thalmor themselves? I mean, they frown upon races, if they were outright racist then none would be allowed to enter the city of Windhelm rather than just not Argonians. The dark elves living in a slum? The entirity of Windhelm is pretty much a slum, what with I imagine it being a besieged city, even if it does not show it.

      I think the Stormcloaks would be more interested in liberating Skyrim first before considering the course of action. It is hard to strategize with a high elf breathing down your neck, after all. And you need your people strong and happy if you want them to fight, not starving and weary. Who is to say they wouldn’t be more open to the other races (they must’ve been at one point, considering other races have LIVED there, presumably before the war as well) and even to bargaining under-table with the Empire?

    • Exactly. Stormcloaks hate elves. Guess what? The Aldmeri Dominion, or the Thalmor, are High Elves. Which would drive the passion of the Stormcloaks into fighting much harder against them than anyone else.

  12. The imperials are far more orginized and put better jarles in when they win and u get better weapons when u side with the imperials and the storm cloaks are a bunch of rasists who cant beat me when I find them and kill them with one hit XD

    • Those weren’t Imperials. They were traveling bandits, who had just stolen the armor from Imperials they just killed — because the Imperials’ bodies were lying on the ground near them. I’ve never encountered an Imperial asking for money..

    • I have never encountered any imperials asking me for money. I did encounter a set of bandit attempting to dress up as imperials and doing an awful job at it. I was in the legion on this save (only encountered them once) and the talk option shows that you know they aren’t real imperials. Never encountered any form of shakedown in Solitude. There are bandits all over skyrim attempting to press money out of you, but they are labeled so, and of course there’s the thieves guild guy posing as a guard outside Riften.

  13. I think everyone that says the imperials are smarter than the stormcloacks are stupid and/or retarded…. Or you have not yet played the stormcloak side… I have played both the imperial and stormcloak side and well I choose the stormcloacks over the imperials… Because 1: the stormcloaks use tactics as you meet ralof and some extra soldiers he make a plan like when rescuing the captured soldiers he tells you to sneak in through a river cave and they take the top… Another one is where you have to take a supply caravan and his plan is for you to attack melee and they will rain down arrows on them from the elevated stone ledge… So yes the stormclaoks are smart and what are the empires plans???? CHARGE!!!!! That’s it… That’s the best they have!!!! 2: stormclaok missions are more fun… Imperials is just boring as it is the same thing over and over with one or 2 exeptions… And what the hell is your problem with the thalmor?? I don’t like the thalmor but I sure as hell don’t need the empire or the stormcloacks to take down the thalmor… I am khajiit so I nord imperials elves don’t bother me… And I KILLED ALDUIN THE WOLD EATER WITH ONE HIT!!!!!!!!!! If I can do that to the wold eater, the dragon that not even the the empire stormcloack and aldimeri diminion united can kill what the hell do u think I can do to a bunch of TINY PITEFULL DISGRACEFULL WEAKLING ELVES???? I will fight and will the great war sigle handed!!! So yeah the aldimeri diminion does not even bother me… They don’t stand a chance!!!!! So yeah be a stormcloack for 2 reasons 1: they’re missions are more fun…. 2: they’re are orginized planned and have a variaty…. Oh and P.S they guy that said what could toryg do against a thu’um…. I have the spell breaker shield so the thu’um FUS RO DA… CAN’T EVEN WIGGLE MY TAIL!!!!

    • Well, IMO, You are right and wrong, as the Schrodinger’s cat…
      You are right, because in the timeline of the skyrim game, while there is a dragonborn you can defend the stormcloaks, kill any threat, and conquer all of skyrim.
      However, from what I read the Aldmeri dominion most probably will last longer than the dragonborn life span, as it as no other equivalent force opposing them. Thus making the choice Stormcloaks in the long term weak to protect the empire from the freaking thalmor.

    • Well… I suppose to each role player is his own. I’d just like to point out you’re not thinking of this realistically, and making nonsensical remarks. Not that it’s wrong, it’s fun to role play a BAMF sometimes. Just don’t push it. No harm done in analyzing the politics of it all anyway.

    • The supply caravan was an Imperial mission, where you with stealth blackmail the jarl’s steward to get information about stormcloak activities. The prison break mission is essentially the same for both sides, in fact the two questlines are essentially identical. Ande honestly, I think you got it backwards. The stormcloaks are the ones who just charge, straight into well plan ambushes, as shown in the very opening of the game.

      • Or I could just sent you a vid and you could stand in awe at the greatness of the khajiit dragonborn…. That was taking it a bit far but still haha…. And to all those who have a problem with people discussing this topic…. WHY THE FUCK ARE YOU HERE???? Get the fuck out…. Do you have nothing better to do than leave shitty comments????

  14. For me the Stormcloaks are a better choice. The imperials are in the thalmors pocket. They let the elves kidnap and torture Talos worshipers. And the Imperials betrayed and gave up a large chunk of Hammerfell. If the imperials would have kept fighting they would have won the Great War but the politicians were corrupt and decided to abide to the elves proposition. All the jarls recieved rooms filled with gold to agree to the white gold concordat. Sure the Stormcloaks aren’t doing the best thing for Skyrim but there doing what’s needed cause the imperials wont do it.

    • Forgot to mention about the nords being racist. Another race just destroyed your government. Would you let other races come to your cities? Thats like mass amounts of Americans moving to Germany after WW2. Would they be accepted? Hell no. And Ulfric is right for killing tyyrog the previous high king. If he cant defend himself could he defend his country? So yeah in my opinion the stormcloaks are a better choice.

      • I noticed *off topic i know… that Hiemakr who is a profit of sorts rantong about tje ban of talos amd for the ppl to rise up! He mentions their planet as “Earth” … I thoight it was “Nirn?” If i am mistaken about sonething just say so politely please as i noticed alot of you Bethesda bum f%#ers like to go into a fit of insults when someone is wrong aboit something to do with thos game lol… its like hearing a star trek fan call someone a loser for spelling some aloen characters name wrong when asking about it. your the loser we just arent as in tune with a video game lol. And for a bunch of know-it-alls tsk tsking the civil war and blindness to the big picture, this whole page looks like a battlefield of two fronts. Kind of ironic…

      • Although the storm cloaks are most likely puppets of the thalmor as well. This civil war was most likely planned out, with the intention of keeping both parties Seceded politically, to maintain their own political standing.

        Not every little detail is given out, cause frankly, that would be boring. I’m sure Bethesda planned to leave some things in between the lines, so people will have to do historical analyses

      • That’s not a particularly great argument. Because a man could not defend himself in a one-on-one battle, particularly against someone who has the power of the voice, has no baring on his ability to lead and plan. Physical strenght is not everything. Granted as most comments the high king was just a boy, only on the throne because of his father(same goes for Ulfric’s position as Jarl though). But yes, he seems to have been quite inexperienced, but that doesn’t make his murder just. And the Nords were racist long before the war started, chasing Dark Elves out of Winterhold for example, this long before the city was more or less destroyed. And to use the American/Germany allegory this would only really go for Nords/Imperials/High Elves, yet it goes against all other races, even those completely on the sidelines like the Argonians, who aren’t even known to be criminals. The nords do have reason to suspect the Khajiit, as all of them are actually collaborating with the thieves guild, wether or not this is a result of their racism is unclear, but the argonians are just hard workers. But then, of course, far from all Nords are racist, and a large amount of them sides with the empire(not that this would make them any less racist of course). They do also seem to accept humanoid races, including Imperials over innocent Dark Elves.

  15. I am for the Stormcloaks. Like Jarl Laila says Ulfric’s motives may not be right but his cause is just. The empire isn’t good for Skyrim anymore. In Morrowind you can meet an aspect of Talos, even he says the empire is old and something new is needed. That was centuries before Skyrim takes place. For you people that say Skyrim wouldn’t be able to stand on it’s own look at Hammerfell. It was able to repel the Aldmeri Dominion on it’s own. I think the smart thing to do if Skyrim does get it’s freedom would be to ally with Hammerfell.

    Also do you really want Elisif to be High Queen? Her own thanes don’t even respect her.

    • The most powerful way to upend a governing body is to join it, and change its policies from within. When Caesar Constantine of Rome, in the real world, was persecuting Christians, he got the idea that he should instead *approve* of Christianity so he could use its cause as a war banner and has uprooted many of the original Christian tenets in trade for giving Rome glory.

      Clearly, High Kings and Queens can change at the drop of a hat. Whether one likes Elisif or not seems irrelevant, when her husband was conked out by a simple shout. How much easier would it be to knock Elisif out of power?

    • Think about it. Even one of your main points has a flaw. The aspect of talos says something new is needed. You clearly disproved yourself by mentioning that it was centuries before skyrim was established, as I’m aware that the recent empire has had to change significantly to deal with the storm cloak rebellion, as with negotiating with the thalmor to ensure temporary peace in skyrim, until they manage to successfully plan, and execute a decisive attack on the thalmor. You may be right in that an alliance with hammerfell might help on that point, but just because the people of hammerfell repelled the AD once, doesn’t mean they can do it again decades or centuries later. As with skyrim’s current divided condition. Not to mention the racism of the stormcloaks would limit, if not negate, any alliances that have or may happen, or at the very least be a source of underlying unnecessary tensions.

    • The Nords and Redguard are like two fingers on one hand as well.

      Warriors bred with a sword in-hand, the Redguards only tolerate destruction magic (not ‘mind tricks’) and the Nords thinking magic a weasely way out.

  16. From what I read until now, I would join the empire.

    While the empire is in the pocket of the thalmor (i.e. Aldmeri Empire), who thought of themselves as the superior race, racism, so does the Stormcloaks as they don’t like but for being targeted for their worshiping, and so they don’t like very much of other races than Nords, racism. (not considering that Ulfric is a d1ck, and the queen is not supported/weak)

    I read somewhere that as Hammerfell stood against the Aldmeri Empire, Skyrim/Stormcloaks would also make it. That is true, but keep in mind that this happened during the great war between the empire and the aldmeri dominion. And the Aldmeri dominion choosed to raise a second army to try and take Hammerfell.

    I don’t think, in a long term, that the Stormcloaks could defend Skyrim from the Aldmeri dominion. I think Thalmor are a common enemy that they should fight as it is the biggest threat with the help of the other forces that dont belong to either the empire and the Aldmeri Dominion.

    The only thing that is preventing me from joining the Empire, is the non-trial decapitation that we were about to experience in the beggining of the game. On the other hand we are forced to “kill” our saviour, the dragon that comes to our rescue (Alduin). And so this argument is a bit weak.

    To end my comment, the thing that is keeping me making me more interested in the next elderscrolls release is that our choice (stormcloaks or empire) will be (probably) disregarded, because the storyline will be independent of our choice, (because if not, one of the choices would not be considered, and this would result in a big flaw.)

  17. …but it is your choice stormcloaks or the empire I would go with the empire bc who knows maybe if they beat that other empire they may lift the ban on Talos

  18. I can understand both sides.

    The Imperials had to make this treaty with the Thalmor or the whole continent of Tamriel would have been wiped out. They had to make a decision based on the ‘greater good of the whole’ at the cost of ‘the needs of the minority’. The big picture is keeping the empire unified.

    The Stormcloaks are right to be outraged at the banning of worshiping Talos. To do this is to take away an important component to it’s culture. Stopping their religion is like telling them their culture is an abomination and should be outlawed. Should they had attempted change through politics? Not sure.

    The fact that the Thalmor added the banned worship of Talos exposes their own prejudice.

    Determining which side to choose is depends on an individuals personal outlook.

    If I were a Nord, I would be outraged at how weak my government is. That government does not represent me if it says that a vital component to my culture is now being outlawed.

    However, if I were not a Nord and from another part of the continent. I may be more inclined to see the overall big picture due to the fact that Talos worship is not my belief or culture. Therefore, it is an acceptable stipulation.

    Either way, both sides are right.

  19. Most of the posts are full of great points – some of them liberally peppered with /facepalmable statements.

    I’m going to quote Howard’s “King Kull”… “Let men worship what gods they will.”

    IDGAF. At all. I -do- however, seriously loathe tyranny. Insanely, psychotically, murderously loathe it. I feel similarly about weak and honorless leadership and theocracy as a form of government. Social cues help in Skyrim. Nords are loosely based on the Norse. Google “Nine Noble Virtues of the Norse”. That should give you an idea what kind of things the Norse – and by proxy, the Nords – would find honorable/evil. Fourth on that list, is at issue in TES:V: duty and loyalty to family, community, nation and Humanity…in that order. Families FIRST. Then those that live near you and share your work/play. Then national issues…THEN international issues. Everyone else is LAST on the list. So it’s no real shock that he Nords would have a “fuck them, they aren’t us” attitude toward foreigners. It’s not even that, though. They don’t KNOW them. They’re as good as total strangers. Who were their fathers and grandfathers? What do they believe? How do they live? What do they worship? Do they have honor, or are they evil? Will they actually enrich us or will they move like locusts over our resources and make it harder for our own people to live? Will they even give a damn about how it will seem from our perspective, or just resettle here, take whatever isn’t nailed down and expect us to treat them like family?

    With the imperials, it’s an issue of rule. People (and Khajits) don’t like to be ruled from afar by someone or something they cannot interact with and/or know. A king must first earn his people’s respect, then strive to earn their love to be worth a damn. To do that, he has to be known by them. They have to see him act with honor, integrity and when necessary, an unflinching sense of justice. Any king who cannot or does not meet those requirements CANNOT rule the Nords effectively. Nords don’t give a fuck about unification or empire or utopian idealism. They care about strength, honor and self-reliance. Yes, they’re barbarians to some degree – but barbarians FOUNDED the Septim dynasty to begin with. Barbarians found cities. The “civlized” slide into debauchery kill them – this is how Nords think…and they’re right. Look what the empire has become? A couple of weak Septimlings and what happens? All hell breaks loose! Any king who cannot protect himself, cannot protect his people – and therefore cannot rule. Period. Ulfric is a pussy for killing the HK during an audience. He should’ve called him out publicly and challenged him to single combat, if he wanted to do it honorably. I won’t deny that. However, it needed to be done. The HK was unfit to rule – and so is his wife. However, SO IS THE EMPEROR. So what would a Nord do with that situation? He’d plant his own ass on the throne, until someone came and knocked him off it. That’s Ulfric’s mindset. True, he doesn’t like Dunmer or various other foreigners – but it’s foreign unification that weakened the empire, in his view. Too much area to police…too many differing opinions and religions to deal with. With the upheavals in certain provinces, there are too many people to feed, clothe and house for any one province to take them on en masse. It’s own people would suffer.The empire is too large to survive. Tiber Septim was man enough to govern such an empire – but he’s long dead – and there’s no man living who can match him. So let them rule themselves…while a Nord, who understands the religion, history and culture of the North rules Skyrim.

    The Empire is gone. Seriously. It’s not really even on life-support. The AD has it’s hand up the spine of the Empire’s corpse and is using it for a puppet. The imperials are angry. They hate the AD – but they hate the idea of the end of the empire more. They will fight to hold onto every little scrap of anything that makes them feel as if it hasn’t. Ship has sailed though. The current Emperor is a weakling and a fool. The blades are gone. The dragon emperors’ entire line is finished. Instead of trying to hold their ridiculous little empire together, why not retreat back into Cyrodil and build infrastructure? Put away supplies and train larger armies? “Oh, because then the AD would occupy the provinces one by one and they’d be hemmed-in!” Nope.jpg. Contrary to popular belief, Skyrim can take care of itself. Morrowind is a lava pit, so that’s safe. Hammerfell has some of the best warriors in Tamriel. Each province would likely follow suit and turtle and wait. Treaties could be made…armies could be raised…and THEN a war could be fought to exterminate every last fucking AD recruit, supporter or enabler on Nirn. Right now, THE EMPIRE CANNOT HELP SKYRIM. So Skyrim does not want it’s laws, tarrifs, treaties or input.

    It seems to me that the real fear Imperials have of the Nords is that IF they’re allowed to flourish and arm…then the Imperials won’t be in charge anymore. They won’t be important pillars of culture and a beacon of civilization…and the center of the universe…like they feel they should be… Not to mention that Nords are barbarians – and capable of extremes – like genocide! If they were allowed to have any self-determination, they might do things in their own lands that Imperials think are morally reprehensible!

    Get. The fuck. Over it.

    The Empire is dead. May the 9 judge it justly.

    That said, I personally do not support Ulfric’s regency bid. There’s a better man for it. Two of them, actually. Balgruuf The Greater is one of them (he’s stayed out of the rebellion, choosing not to endanger his people any more than needs be) – and the Dohvalkin is another. Actually, the Dohv is the real power in Skyrim. Only s/he can defend against the rise of the dragons – only s/he leads all guilds and is a Thane of each Jarl. Known all over Skyrim. Heroic. Largely Just (ymmv, based on choices made). With that kind of influence, he/she could unite the guilds, clans and probably even the provinces to fight the more obvious enemy. The Dohv, even if s/he is not a Nord, has more than proven him/herself. Tiber Septim “united” (read: conquered) those disparate peoples, too… If the Imperials refuse to let their trifling dream die, put the Dohv in the big chair and let’s go kill some AD already! THEY are the real enemy. Hell, I’d make a treaty with Alduin before I’d allow a single fucking piece of AD shitslime to roam freely about Skyrim. If the High Elves want Theocratic Facism, let them have it – back in their own lands. Any piece of that infected mass that crosses any High Elven border into a free territory gets executed.

    Some people are IRL Imperials – they love the idea of huge cities with ‘diversity’ and all those other social buzzwords. Cities are great – they provide all kinds of opportunity that people who live outside them might not get – but there can be an arrogance to cities. People can come to believe that where they live actually makes them more educated or enlightened or special. Others consider all that to be worth less than nothing and prefer to live in rural areas with people they’ve known (and whom have known them) for generations, even if it means their day is filled with a little more work. To each his/her own, yes? Or is that, “To each his/her own – so long as they agree with me?” That’s metropolitan arrogance – and in TES, the Empire has it. Bad.

    Lands get conquered. Fine. No big. They’re often ruled for generations by the family who led the conquest. Again, cool. No problem. Conqueror’s privilege. However, if and when that line of kings fails…a new dynasty comes into power. A less worthy dynasty, simply by virtue of the fact that it was not the one who did the conquering. When that occurs, people begin to get restless and question the status quo. This is the environment for TES:V. The king’s a wuss and we’re all in worse shape. That kind of strife causes the normal divisions to become schisms, battles and open warfare. If the Emperor had working testicles, he’d be IN Skyrim, asking what he could do to help. He’s not. He’s fiddling while his empire burns. He deserves to lose it – and he WILL lose it. Either to fractures or to the AD. So, I submit that you’re backing the wrong horse if you’re an Imperial. A dead horse, honestly. Surrender the fantasy and let’s figure out wtf to do with the provinces now. IF the Dohv is not the new Emperor, the empire dies. If s/he IS, then there might be a slim chance – but only if s/he is accepted as a champion of each province (good luck with that…).

    Realistically…each province should choose a leader, rally behind that leader and press cooperation with other provincial leaders to wipe the AD off the planet, THEN come home and start talking about how to govern.

    Now…a PSA on racism…
    How is a racist created? Take one race in it’s own lands and interject at least one other race with a completely different and/or contrary culture and religion into the same landmass. Force them to live together. Make it illegal not to do so. Congratulations, you’ve created two types of racists!

    That’s all racism is. “I do not believe what you believe and I do not want to live the way you choose to live, so I will live apart from you.” It doesn’t even have to be an angry or hateful thing. It’s the whole “sharing the landmass” thing that inflames those divisions into hatred and the narrative devolves into color/nationality complaints. If you disagree, answer this: Do you have different beliefs, ideals and tastes than your parents? Now: Could you live with them for good? Or would the differences eventually drive you batshit and make you hateful?

    See my point? Skyrim for Nords, Cyrodil for Quasi-Roman wannabes, Hammerfell for Redguards, etc, etc. The only race SOL are the Dunmer – but if they assimilate somewhat and work hard at being useful, I’m sure they’ll be taken in. You’d be surprised how much compassion people have when they aren’t having disparate religions/cultures, laws and taxes shoved down their gob.

    -H.

      • and your opinion is completely. fucking. retarded. lets just separate all the races back into their original lands and there will be no more problems hooray. fuckin segregationist taking racist way out while also trying to speak about racism. racism has always been used to separate the middle class so the elite can slide by. learn what the fuck ur talking about before u say some jim crow era bullshit.

      • That’s discrimination not racism… Moron…. Racism is the discrimination against a RACE… And like you said to seperate the middle class so that the elite can slide by is just regular discrimination not racism….

      • That’s discrimination not racism… Moron…. Racism is the discrimination against a RACE… And like you said to separate the middle class so that the elite can slide by is just regular discrimination not racism….

      • That’s discrimination not racism… Racism is the discrimination against a RACE… And like you said to separate the middle class so that the elite can slide by is just regular discrimination not racism….

  20. If thalmor AD hate humans and want to enslave then as fast as they can dns if they where so strong what could beat imperials then why they accepted the peace?they could just kill them all and finish that business…

  21. You are right on most of your points, save a few factual errors (Thalmor primarily resides at their embassy outside solitude, and if the stormcloaks doesn’t get the reach you have a tiny delegation there, I have never encounered Thalmor in Riften, though they can be encountered on the road transmitting prisoners throughout skyrim).Furthermore, though there are few Thalmors in Skyrim, the Aldmeri Dominion won the great war and is the superior force. Killing a few unimportant delegates wouldn’t lead to any good what so ever and would probably lead them to destroy the empire once and for all, because as things currently are they would win.

    What you are right about is that the empire is the empire are the only ones that can stop them. Ulfric and Galmar’s plan to take the fight to the Thalmor is simply a suicide mission. If the Aldmeri Dominion almost brought the empire to ruin, what would it do with little insignificant skyrim? They have nowhere near the manpower.

    The first time I played the game I sided with the stormcloaks, mainly because I didn’t even know I could join the empire at that time, and they seemed like the good guys. ut they actually aren’t. Everything the empire/thalmor did to them, which they claim to be true evil, they did to the Forsworn, the natives of the Reach. They forbid their old gods and Ulfric himself lead the assault that drove them out of Markarth. That kind of hypocrisy is beyond contempt, and I love how the game mirrors the Stormcloaks war against the empire and the Forsworns war against the Nords.

    And as you stated, the empire have nothing against Talos. Before Ulfric cried murder people were allowed to worship him in peace. If the empire was allowed to grow strong enough they would fight back against the Aldmeri Dominion, but the stormcloaks are making this impossible. Of course the empire are far from clean, but they are the lesser of two evils.

    Would have been rather interesting if you could have joined the Thalmor and lead both sides into ruin though, it can be fun being the bad guy. ;D

  22. Your wrong the Stormcloaks wish to attack the Thalmor but the imperials are standing ib there way. Also the Imperials are the ones who refuse to admite they want Talos. I mean there is a building to worship Talos in Windhelm so dont go on about saying the Stormcloaks refuse to admite they wont Talos when they is a building dedicated to it in Windhelm.

  23. guys, the redguards defeated the thalmor with there own people int the 4th and 2nd era in tamriel to just gain there idependence, so why can’t the nords of skyrim have there independences too???

  24. I believe one point that needs to be addressed is how the Imperials as a race feel about the Thalmor. Throughout the game I have tried to find out exactly what the Imperials feel concerning the Dominion, if you join the Legion you are fed numerous reasons about why the Imperials are fighting the Stormcloaks bet never really given any solid reasons as to what they think of the Dominion, in fact you’re often told to hold such questions when asking Imperials about it. My best answer for this is that the Imperials are just confused, almost shell shocked by the occurrences of the last century, they either refuse to accept their fall from grace or just feel an immense disgrace concerning the Great War and it’s occurrences. Throughout Elder Scrolls lore you have been told of the major rivalry between the Imperials who used to be slaves to the Altmer, and the Altmer who had to bend a knee to the Empire when overthrown, was the loss of superiority too much for the Imperials? Now deep down I am fairly sure that the Imperials feel the strongest about the Thalmor but simply don’t know in what way to express their hatred. Now whether or not the Imperials will wake up from denial or not is an incredibly huge point as it could negate any further support for the Empire. As it stands now it’s the Provinces, not the Empire that speak out the most against Thalmor rule, now whether or not that changes, well… We’ll have to see.

  25. It’s a game are you seriously calling stormcloaks dumb its a game they can’t be dumb they are just programmed not real. the big thing is you can do it any way multiple ways so why would it matter I think most people will do both in separate playthroughs
    calm down and don’t overthink it

  26. So far from my point of veiw both sides have good and bad sides to them but lets take all this from an outsiders perspective the Thalmor have won a major war the Empire as a result is traumatised its honour stripped having to remove one of their gods (lets remember that talos is not just a god worshiped in skyrim and after all the empire came from the people of skyrim) now suddenly a problematic jarl (Ulfric) has seized the unrest in the province to his own advantage what makes the situation worse is that he is a potential spy from the Thalmor (I find it very hard to believe they would of realeased him without gaining somthing in return) he seems to be a leader unwilling to acknowledge the hypocricy of his actions and seems to let racism (Im sorry it IS racist to put people in ghettos hitler did it and so did medival christians to jews).

    Now the empire is a crumbling confederacy (it is wrong to suggest the emporer has complete control over the audiance otherwise the jarls and the high kings/queens would be cerimonious) now from my point of veiw the empire is coming to a pariniod climax with corruption rife and ruthlessness prehaps a late after shock of their deafeat to the Thalmor they execute people who just have the bad luck to land with stormcloaks

    now that we have taken all this in perspective I would like to bring in my opinion it is quite obvious that as a ruler ulfric would be unsuffreable he has a fricken GIGANTIC ego can you imagine him being connected to the normal people I remember when the second time a met him and his first words were “you must be brave or a fool to come to a jarl without summons” now the widow of the high king may be weak but at least she understands the plight of her people and has some dam manners.

    We all agree that the Thalmor are the real enemeis but in terms of infrastucter and millitary the empire (despite its weakend state) is best equipped to take the fight back to them the stormcloaks are merly a concotion of Ulfrics to gain power you could use the argument that the palestinains need their honour back from the isralis and how they feel they are being discriminated against but at the end of the day hamas is using them for their own gain same goes for Ulfric and the stormcoaks.

    We need to think that if Ulfric does become high king then what? Im hearing a lot about hammerfell and how they resisted the Thalmor but that just it isnt it they have only RESISTED not fought the the Thalmor in their home turf what would happen if the empire fell apart would be like the situation between windhelm and whiterun a state of mutual distrust/war the Thalmor could just play the waiting game and sweep to power this is obvious and I think it is delusional to think that all the provinces could have an alliance with each other for long enough to resist the Thalmor there would simply be to much distrust could you se Ulfric cosying up to the argonians or hammerfell?

    At the end of the day the Empire is still the better side morally it works for the greater good of all and even though it is a shadow of its former self thats not to say they could never revive themselves to their former glory. What really pisses me of is that if the stormcloaks just shut their mouths and simply did as was required of them the Empire would probably be near the stage of at the very least coming through a decent recovory from the war and probably would be able to restore Talos and renogiate the treaty

    Shame on the stormcloaks for playing so blindly in to one of the most obvious traps of the century. Even if Ulfric and the rest are not knowing puppets of the Thalmor then they have to be some fricken stupid not to realise it that just shows some real lack of brain power there and I will never accept Ulfric as my ruler because of it. Sometimes you need to take one for the team and frankly the stormcloaks have just shown they are not team players.

    • Ok let’s clear things up… The entire nord way of live is based on norse vikings…. That means that they hold honor and glory above anything els… A viking would kill you without even thinking if you dishonor them in the slightest way… And that’s the biggest reason why the nords are fighting the empire… Another big reason is that the empire took away their god(talos) by telling them that they are not alowed to worship him… And screw you all that believe its a stupid reason cause I would not alow you to take away my religion and I’m not even that big on religion… And the final and most important reason is that if you listen to the dead high kings wife (elisif) and to all the other jarls and even ulfric himself… All the nords want is INDEPENDANCE!!!!!!! Are they not allowed that??? so if you look at our human history you can say that if you side with the empire then you side with the british against the USA cause the USA faught for their independance…. And that’s all… Not even riligeon or anaything els… Just their independance… So go stormcloack or go against freedom and independance…

  27. O and to all you who think the stormcloacks don’t have the power the beat a weakend empire… Think about this… The stormcloack have no real army… No trained soldiers or funded weapons… Their army is completely made up of volenteers and the only people they have that might have combat experience is the city gaurd… And who are the fighting BATTLE HARDEND VETEREN SOLDIERS…. So sthe stormcloacks is an untrained unfunded and unexperienced and outnumbered using cheap low grade weapons ARMY that consists of civilians and gaurds…. And they fight BATTLE HARDEND VETEREN SOLDIERS with the best weapons and good quality armor and trained to kill and have seen war have faught war and even after the war have a huge amount of soldiers…. AND still the stormcloacks are giving the imperials a run for their money and kicking them form one end of skyrim to the other…. Show me another army that can do that!!! That speaks volumes!!!!! Its shows how powerfull the nords are and also shows why the tahlmor are scared of them…. It also shows that with beter funding and training and increased numbers the stormcloack could easily rival and even beat the aldimary diminion… Here is a good comparason… School kids with pistols(stormcloacks) are killing and beating special forces soldiers with machine guns and vehicles(imperials)… I think that’s how you can compare the experience and training and funding between the two ….

      • Here is something all you imperials should know… I don’t know if you played oblivion but if you have then you should go play it again… Because in oblivion it says and I quote: “…and if no heir of our joined blood(dragonborn) shall wear the amulet of kings. Then shall the empire decend into darkness.” Okey so if you still don’t get it, that means even if the dragonborn become emperor the empire will still continue to degrade and become weaker and weaker… The empire will never again gain power! Why? Because the amulet of king is DESTROYED! So that means no amulet no powerful empire because the empire no longer have the blessings of the divines and then they were stupid enough to forsake the only divine that would still bless them a.k.a TALOS…

  28. Ahhhh I love skyrim…..may be just a game, but makes for some interesting arguments and theories. Many thanks and by all means keep the posts coming.

  29. In respone to Wolf and how the removal of talos is a big deal he should be reminded that in pretty much all of skyrim people still seem to worship him their is even a shrine in Riften that you could easily find say for instance your country had suddenly lost a war to lets say Iran or china and so your goverment was forced to remove christianity and let their people patrol the area looking for christians are you saying that instead of trying to rebuild your country you would futher weaken it so your state could become independant? If it were me I would straight away join the marines so there is a chance that things could be as they once were so the same goes for skyrim.

    Maby the Stormcloaks do have a good cause but lets be honest even though they might do you realy trust a man like Ulfric to enchance the prospects of Skyrim all I see would be him trying to make his own empire. You cannot claim that Stormcloaks are the emboidiments of the nords way of life when their leader so blatantly breaks these rules that is the very escence of hypocrisy this is blatant to his links with the Thalmor and his use of the shout to win a fight against someone who could only use weapons that seems cowardly and dishonurable to me not to mention what he did to Forsworn (another rebel movement who had key aspects of the culture removed by Ulfric and demolished by him for daring to rebel oh dont you just love the hypocrisy of the man nopw thats what I call irony) .Wolf maby if the leader was diffrent I might now be on your side of the argument.

    Also to you other comment about how the strorm cloaks with crappy gear are managing to hold of the trained and experianced Legion and thats one of the reasons you like them this could not be futher from the truth the reality is that the Empire is suffreing from losing a war you cant just assume that after this war the first thing their going to do is send all their best troops to skyrim when the problem could be solved with a lesser amount of men you have to assume that most of the Legion are back in cyrodil making sure looting dosent take place and trying to reserect the Empire building forteresses and defences.

    If I were Ulfric yes I would be enraged that I cannot worship my god but I wouldent rebel against the empire I would take my stormcloaks march all the way to Aldmeri Dominion gathering support along the way and teach those Thalmor a lesson.

    You just cant assume that if the Stormcloaks do win the war and end up being rulers of skyrim in future games that al will be well do you really hink the Thalmor will just let it go like that? If they really want Talos gone from the divines then the second the Empire gives up they will simply own your asses if the Stormcloaks are having problems with the Legion how do you think they will last against the Thalmor who have already won a great war and so have plenty of supplies and cash to win a lesser one.

    Now for this bit im going to adress the whole idea that the Empire is like a tamriel version of the Roman Empire I cannot stress enough how this is is not true the Empire is more like a confederacy than anything else it only really deals with a shared constituion and peace and prehaps trade that is largly what the Empire is. Empire troops may patrol some troubled are but it is the Nords of Skyrim who guard their cities it is the Nords of Skyrim who have a high king/queen to do most of the work of running the country (they even get to pick their hig king/queen at the moot) and it is the Nords of Skyrim who control their holds an example of this is when the Jarl of Windhelm sends troops to Riverwood after news of the dragon at Helgen despite the fact he hadnt picked a side if this Empire was anything like the Roman Empire he would not be alowed that degree of independance or men he would be smashed by now for not picking a side.

    I agree that the Empire is hardly a knight in shining armour but it is better than doing what the Stormcloaks are doing which is cutting of their nose to spite their face.My main aim would be to join whoever is most likley to take the fight back to the Aldmeri Dominion and to suggest that the Stormcloaks would be able to do this is absurd. Even if they were to win a convincing victory and by some miracle the Thalmor seemed to hold back out of fear (very unlikley) how many stormcloaks would want to fight a foreign land which they obviously know so little about despite the harm being done to them by the Thalmor.

    • Dude …. Your argument still does not change the fact that the stormcloacks are 80 percent civilians fighting against battle hardend veterans… So there goes one quarter of your argeument… And second you ulfric killed en chased the bretons who became the forsworn out of markarth… But go to markarth and ask the jarl for the truth… The forsworn took markarth from the nords during the great war… The the empire asked Ulfric who was not yet jarl but instead at the time comanded a militia group to take the city back by all means nessesary… So the many forsworn deaths were orderd by the EMPIRE!!!! There goes another qaurter of you argument… And thirdly the empire are bloody roman wannebees… They have the skirts, gladius look-alike short swords and one emperor that rules the empire… So yeah they are bloody roman wannebees…. The even took the red roman colour and made the armour a look-alike copy of old roman armour… What more of an indicator do you need???? So there goes another qaurter…. So that’s 3/4 of you argument sent to oblivion…. And the 4th I can’t remember but I’m not scroling all they way down cause I’m using a mobile to reply so yeah I’ll reply on that 4th point next time…. Anything els you wanna know????

      • What say you about the atrocities Ulfric committed against both the Forsworn AFTER they surrendered and what he did TO HIS OWN PEOPLE who chose to stay out of the fight? You, sir, didn’t finish doing your homework.

  30. roman wannabees maby but if you know anything about ancient rome you can spot the pretty major diffrences just because they have the same dress dosent make them the same also to aid you in accepting that the Emporer is not this all controling being think of the challoncer of the republic in star wars the top dog yes but he still has to listen to the planet rulers and senators and each planet has a degree of independance that is the situation in skyrim 1/3 of you argument gone. Second even if Ulfric was commanded by the Empire he still is a hypocrite for starting his own uprising later after brutally crushing one before oh and the forsworn are bretons who had their land taken of them by the Nords in the first place so its no wonder they took makarth 2/3 as for the 80 percent civillian thats total bull when you try and join the storm cloaks the guy sends you to deafeat some ice wraiths to prove yourself hardly somthing a Nord civillian could do 3/3. Also all of what you daid does not change that Ulfric mysteriouly managed to get out of the Aldmeri Dominion with the Thalmors consent it dosent change that he used cowardly means to kill the high king plus hes lets racism take place in his own main city and not to mention he goes against the virtues of the Nords. Like I said before the Empire are no knights in shing armour but its better than working for a guy like Ulfric.

    • Ok seriously I’m not going to argeu with an idiot that knows nothing about skyrim and cannot read…. I said they are roman wannebees not actual romans…. WANNABEES!!!! Its means that they want to be like the romans not that they are romans… 1/3 gone…. 2/3 is already gone cause you started that argeument to show ulfric’s dispicable side when it was actualy the empire…. O and the land first belonged to the nords…. Then the bretons came and took over markarth and then ulfric came and cleared them out… And finally 3/3 you are probly one of those lapdogs that just wants to be told what to do and any other info is not needed…. Cause you can ask the general th gives you the ice wraith mission : does everybody have to do this? Then he tell you no only you have to do this task…. And when your done he tells you the reason why your the only one that had to do it…. Beacause he did not think your heart was in it…. So yeah you entire argeument once again pulverised…. Can I asist you in any other way by proving you wrong some more???

  31. I concede you have proven yourself in the argument but lets be honest you seem pretty keen to avoid most of my points about Ulfrics myserious past with the Thalmor and how you seem to completely dodge the fact that he shouted a man down who could not defend himself. as for your last comment about me being a lapdog screw you you obviously enjoy spending time sitting alone in your room playing skyrim 24/7 so no im not a lapdog and your just a sad loser oh and look up the forsworn if you really want and then you might see my point about them. And finally even if the genreal sends you to the icewraiths because he sense your heart is not in it dont you think that the Stormcloaks who he would let in straight away have some experiance? I mean it would be pretty stupid to send somone who survived Helgen to the ice wraiths but let in a piss poor farmer with no fighting experiance because his heart was in it.

    • Ok seriously I do not play skyrim 24/7 I just pay attention to what the people say and ask the right questions and explore everything… And no I’m not taking the game too seriously I just hate it when I have to prove ppl wrong time and time again just because they did not have the common sense to ask the extra question in the game and find the truth… Lazy morons… All your arguments that I disproved I did not need to cause the game itself disproves your arguments… And sorry for the insult but its really really anoying… Now for ulfric’s past with the thalmor… This can be read in the thalmor journals or heard from the jarl of markarth… Ulfric cleared out the forsworn in markarth under imperial order and was promised talos worship despite the white cold concordat treaty…. The empire was hoping the thalmor would not find out nut they did and arrested ulfric… After that to stop the empire from building up the skyrim(witch is home to nords one of the greatest warrior races and witch is feared by the thalmor because if the nords are reunited with the empire it could pose a challange) that’s why they releasy ulfric knowing that he would start a war with the empire because the worship of talos was banned even after the promised him free worship of talos for taking back markarth…. So he was screwed over by the empire, got put in jail for years and stiil was not alowed to worship who he wanted to…. If it was me I would start a was too…. Hope that helps everyone who does not understand ulfrics past and his hatred for the empire… And he does live by norse code witch states that you put your god/gods family friends honor glory and your people before anything and anyone els this includes other races…. Its the way he was raised and he is not racist he was taught and raised that other races and people are his last priority witch is his way of life…. And they way of all nord life witch is based on norse/viking life….

  32. oh and P.S you speak about how Nords live by their code of honour but its pretty obvious that the very founder of the Stormcloaks a has little respect for it. All you have done is picked of the weak points of my argument and ignored the important ones. OH and I can tell you take this to seriously because who else insutls somone over a game get a life this is just a hypothetical discusion

    • Your most likely just to stupid to play skyrim… Skyrim is one of the best games ever created and by far my favorite… And as far as dragon slaying goes… The could not have done it better… Who want to fight a dragon by jumping up and down on it, slashing it with swords and doing al sorts of tricks and all this attacking is done by one button along with the movement arrows or analog stick… Where is the fun in that??? Oh and before I forget… After reading your stupid post I fought the first dragon and by my surprise… It would not land… And when it did land It roasted and at the same time whacked me with its tail… Weird considering that you claim the don’t do that… And my dragon actually landed an took off in about a seconds time… And if you looked at the side of the watch tower you would see the dragon flying FROM THE MOUNTAINS… TO THE WATCHTOWER… And no buildup? Oh you most likely did not even take the time to listen to what the npc’s had to say… oh and yes the dragon also hit me with its wings and when running away it actually WALKED AFTER ME… Wow you forgot to mention that they moved… You said they stay stationary when on the ground… I DONT BELIEVE IT(SARCASM DUMBASS) and whoever does not believe me give me your e-mail addresses and I’ll send you a video where I fight the first dragon… And in the video you will see how the dragon refuses to land, hits me with its tail, comes flying from the mountain… And I kill it with a finisher… By jumping on its head and stabbing a sword through its head… And don’t worry I’ll make another video of the dragon chasing me around on the FLOOR… Look at that I just disproved your entire post with one video…

  33. Tell me why when I look up this topic everyone just wines about a fictional political agenda. I don’t CARE about that all I care about are which side gives better missions and story line but nobody mentions those, no, everyone just trips out on which side is more righteous. Wow. Who cares it’s a VIDEO GAME obviously some people have no lives. Get your lazy ass outside and hit the club sometime. Geeeeez

    • Why would I want to go to a club?
      They don’t have video games there.

      You’re looking up a subject about a video game, but complaining about people bickering over a video game. You sir, are rock-bottom retarded.

    • Of course we have a life you moron… Where do you think al the mony comes from to by the games… You probly still have momy and dady buy them 4 u….

  34. All I know is I sided with the stormcloaks bc the B!tc$ officer at the beggining of the game. Who am I the Nord that’s gonna take back Skyrim cuz I’m the undefeated FU@%in Dovahkiin. Point me in the direction of the Thalmor I’ll take Skyrim back with a blood smeared sword in each hand. If I can kill a dragon in two swings, what can a Thalmor do. Kill em all. WHO’S WITH MEEEEEEEEEEE! (sorry juice rage actin up again)

  35. there are far deeper and more sinister powers at work in the Elder Scrolls universe then the Thalmor, The Elves already ruled Tamriel once it won’t happen again, this conflict is going to be overshadowed by something worse coming. Personally I feel the whole Empire thing was getting tiresome dramatically and I’d like to see things change in Tamriel, It is strange that Elves seem to be consistently portrayed as evil in the Elderscrolls, I thought thats what Dark Elves where for. With all the Daedra and demonic forces trying to devour the world you’d think Elves and Men would have cause to unite at some point, instead of one ruling the other in turn…

  36. First off fuck the empire, the ban of talos was the elves way of making the empire kiss their ass because they dont think a man can become a god. The empire should have hired the dark brotherhood’s best to kill the elf lords. Then instead of fighting the stormcloaks they should unite and give skyrim to the nords ( Im sure one country isnt that big of a loss to the so called ”Imperial Empire” ) Oh dont worry stormcloaks Im gonna rip you a new one too. Stop using beliefs and religion as your cause because thats bullshit, put the mead down and take up arms with empire… Talos’s corpse is rolling in his tomb right now. One more thing, if youre a supporter of the elves im sure youre loving this but I got something for your ass to . Magic and gold run out eventually and when it does your followers are going to turn on you because of greed, and theres nothing you can do to stop it. PIPE BOMB!!!

  37. The Thalmor and the Altmeri Dominion

    Well its assured that the Thalmor are using men to weaken men. In this We are the Dragonborn, and its our responsibility to do what is best for all men. (If you play with something other than a human, have fun, and ignore this.) As the Dragonborn, you are Nordic Superman and solve 100% of all problems anyway. 1. The Beginning. That corrupt commander is to blame for trying to kill you. Leave with Ralof and get JUSTICE on that biach! Problem Solved. 2. The Empire. Titus Mede according to wikipedia defeated the Dominion but signed the treaty for peace. Join the DBhood and kill him. He also released Hammerfell from the Empire. Unforgivable Considering Hammerfell held off the Dominion and drove them from their country. He deserves death. 3. The War. If you join Ulfric, Skyrim will be Independent and can either Ally with Hammerfell or Outright attack the Summerset Isles. Ulfrics Skyrim Army plus a Dragonborn riding Ohdaviin and Hammerfell Army? I call that INVASION RIGHT NOW. Make that an EXP PACK! Or! Crush the rebellion. Marry Elisf and become High King. Give Markarth to Bretons (Markarth is Ugly) Create Alliance with High Rock. Then create nicer homes for Dunmer in Windhelm creating Alliance with Morrowind. Then Reunite Hammerfell to Empire. Tell the Elves of Valenwood to either join the New Alliance or FOREVER live in Altmer Shadows. The Mass the Alliance of the Free Peoples of Nirn. Assault on Summerset Isles. The Dragonborn can do anything. Even Create a New Empire.

  38. ALL YOU GUYS ARE IDIOTS!! look stormcloacks are all Nords no breton or anything but imperials are all elf’s nords and all races Nords live in skyrim but other races are like tourists but they are like British peeps who just wanna rule the 1st war of independence with India remember? they all are trying to take over Skyrim but the Stormcloacks are defending themselves while attacking they are protecting there sons and daughters and wives they are killing all other people who are other races dont call Ulfric Racist cuz i think he should be the true high KING! so that i can kill him and take his place xD yea he is strong because of his pride for his nation HIS AND OUR NATION if your a nord ok so SHUT UP STORMCLOAKS ARE THE TRUE SONS OF SKYRIM AND THEY ARE ONLY DEFENDING THERE LAND!!! oh yea and i want some PIZZA FOR LAST COMMENT!!!

  39. Its just a fucking game. All i have to say. Although ive read this entire page and its very interesting..

  40. I’ve played through both sides.

    Storm Cloaks: made me feel like I was striking a blow for freedom, making Skyrim a safer place & helping people along the way. Not to mention the empire wants chop my fuckin head off, to avoid doing a double check on their paperwork. ( -.o punk ass bitches)

    Empire: I felt cheap & dirty, like I was oppressing the masses. a puppet of the Thalmor to weak to tell them to stuff it. I felt as though I accomplished nothing except to strengthen the high elves foothold in Skyrim.

    bottom line.. I’m a stormcloak, don’t tell me who to worship & who not to. Fuck you. And if you happen to be a snotty uppity ass Thalmor agent, better guard your neck, I’ll leave ya leakin brah.

    Talos & I go way back, we used to hang around the Imperial city & beat the shit out of Mehrunes Dagon together. So sell your wolf tickets somewhere else,

    By the way, anyone else find the thieveing book where that asshole takes credit for all the shit we did in previous games? what a douchebag…

  41. the empire would have been destoyed if they had not signed that treaty and there would be a huge elven army just south of skyrim, any local militias would be mowed over, bottomline if the empire had not signed that treaty, the only banner that would be flying over skyrim would be an ugly old thalmor banner and i think both the imperials and stormcloaks would agree that they would like all thalmors to burn slowly and that the treaty was a good idea, and the empire isn’t even forcing it, have you seen how many cities in skyrim that have shrines and temples to talos still?, like balgruuf (probally didn’t spell his name right) tthe true jarl of whiterun, is a true believer of talos and follows the empire, if he wanted to he could have heimskr burned and the shrine removed but he doesn’t and if you have ever played the imperial quest line, near the end when you invade windhelm, legate Rikke yells out “For Talos”. so i think the imperials love tiber septim as much as the stormcloaks.

    i have always been an imperial legionaire, whenever i watch the empire strikes back, i cheer on Vader’s forces when they destroy the hoth base. so the choice for me was obvious. and another thing is in star wars if it wasn’t for luke the rebels would have been raped by the empire just as unless dragonborn (you) joins the stormcloaks, the stormcloaks don’t have a chance in oblivian.

    who would you want to fight for? a bunch of blonde, barbaric, no brains, whiny, town gaurds who all used to be adventurers like us until they all took arrows to the knee orwell organized, well armed, well trained, well equipped soldiers, a bit bias i know but to all you stormcloaks out there i only one thing to say and that is: “the truth hurts,”and all you stormcloaks out there, you a pain in my knee. EMPIRE FOREVER.

  42. In response to that other retard who was argeuing with me and I apologise for taking so long to reply… As you can see I only started checking again nw… Ok seriously I do not play skyrim 24/7 I just pay attention to what the people say and ask the right questions and explore everything… And no I’m not taking the game too seriously I just hate it when I have to prove ppl wrong time and time again just because they did not have the common sense to ask the extra question in the game and find the truth… Lazy morons… All your arguments that I disproved I did not need to cause the game itself disproves your arguments… And sorry for the insult but its really really anoying… Now for ulfric’s past with the thalmor… This can be read in the thalmor journals or heard from the jarl of markarth… Ulfric cleared out the forsworn in markarth under imperial order and was promised talos worship despite the white cold concordat treaty…. The empire was hoping the thalmor would not find out nut they did and arrested ulfric… After that to stop the empire from building up the skyrim(witch is home to nords one of the greatest warrior races and witch is feared by the thalmor because if the nords are reunited with the empire it could pose a challange) that’s why they releasy ulfric knowing that he would start a war with the empire because the worship of talos was banned even after the promised him free worship of talos for taking back markarth…. So he was screwed over by the empire, got put in jail for years and stiil was not alowed to worship who he wanted to…. If it was me I would start a was too…. Hope that helps everyone who does not understand ulfrics past and his hatred for the empire… And he does live by norse code witch states that you put your god/gods family friends honor glory and your people before anything and anyone els this includes other races…. Its the way he was raised and he is not racist he was taught and raised that other races and people are his last priority witch is his way of life…. And they way of all nord life witch is based on norse/viking life….

  43. What’s with the “lazy stormcloak” bit? It seems a staple for those with weak arguments to attach unfitting adjective to something that they’re arguing against.. You’re basically telling me that the stormcloaks are lazy for taking the fight to the empire instead of waiting around for the empire to one day fight the thalmor? LOL logic fail. The Stormcloaks are called the aggressors for a reason, and it isn’t because they are lay-abouts, it’s because THEY are the ones actually doing something. I think you’re missing something really big here..That really big part being that the Empire is housing the Thalmor. The Thalmor are only there because of the empire. And the Stormcloaks attack the Empire solely because it defends them -______-“”.

    And despite your opinion both the empire and the elves arrest people for Talos worship, even worse, the empire attacks you if you attack thalmor, even if they have a prisoner with them. It’s the reason I joined the stormcloaks. Thalmor patrol on the road, dispatched them, imperials attacked me to defend their masters, were put down. The Empire did not permit anything, they were forced to sign the treaty, and they in turn forced the yarls to sign it.

    Imperial plot: So..The Imperials have an ingenious plot, to let mind controlling armed supersoldiers police their cities, conduct searches, infiltrate them, and slowly but surely chip away at their faith and numbers? (By arresting people..And yes people are arrested constantly by both imps and thalmor.) So they can eventually kill the tiny number of spies placed by the Thalmor in Skyrim that were only there because the Empire allowed it originally? More likely the complete opposite. It is well known that the Thalmor need time. The Thalmor have something that they wouldn’t without the Empire, a foothold in skyrim, spies everywhere, asserting control.

    Ulfric the puppet: Ulfric is indeed a puppet of the Thalmor, but you misunderstand the nature of it. The nature is that the Thalmor do not believe Ulfric can beat the imperials. Therefore prolonging the war with ulfric does nothing but damage the empire. Imperial bulldogs fight and die for the Thalmor’s right to be in Skyrim as per the imperial treaty. If the Thalmor thought for a second that Ulfric could wipe out the Imperials they’d have chopped his head off. The Thalmor are in a weakened state, and the Redguards ousted the Imperials as Ulfric is doing now, they beat the Thalmor back in their own turf guerrilla style.

    The Thalmor are going to be driven out of skyrim by the Stormcloaks, Hammerfell by the Redguards, Independent nations fighting a common threat, without the debilitating weakness of a melting pot empire. Cyrodil lost, the whole world suffers, fuck that, let the imperials go back to their homeland and defend their own people.

  44. Wait the Thalmor say that they are the “supreme” race and I see that as racism same with Stormcloacks they don’t like anyone who is a “milk drinker” or any other race than their own,so in a way they have the same policies and that the Talos ban is a scam that will make the empire even weaker cause a “careful” war is the hardest cause you have to be careful who you kill and that way you’ll lose much more people that will make a reinforcement to the Empire,die, and that is how the Thalmor would defeat the Empire by defeating them indirectily and there by making the last general of the Empire general Tulius get killed by the Stormcloaks leaving the Empire without a general making it easy to defeat their army who don’t have a leader…

  45. First of all, the Thalmor and Aldmeri Dominion are cocky little pricks who care about one thing and one thing only…..themselves (Ruling Tamriel included), the REAL Empire died fighting The Elves and now the Elves are just using its Remains to gain ground and popularity….the Stormcloaks can see right through that crap……I would rather live free…then to live free but knowing that we are slaves to pointy eared douchebags.

  46. Okay you do realize that the thalmor are much much larger then what they are in skyrim if anybody threatened them they would send a army of thalmor mages an soldiers to destroy the threat with no problem an the only reason the imperials singed the treaty was to stop from being completely destroyed in the great war which is mentioned repeatedly in the game also it doesn’t matter which side you choose their both a$$ holes fighting eachother over a treaty but each has benefits so it doesn’t matter

  47. I would have to say that going with the Stormcloaks is the best option for the Empire. The Nords are excellent fighters, and allowing them to go after the Aldmeri Dominion is the best thing the Empire could do. There really aren’t a lot of Imperial soldiers in Skyrim anyway, even Tullius complains that they don’t have enough soldiers, so it’s not a huge dent in their army. The only real loss is losing a general.

    Once the Stormcloaks prepare to attack Summerset Isle, the Empire forms a treaty with them to send additional soldiers to further their cause. (After reasoning with Ulfric and explaining to him that things will revert back to pre-Great War times). The Stormcloaks and Imperials take Summerset Isle and destroy any Thalmor influence on Tamriel, leaving a broken force that will be easy to destroy.

  48. I don’t think you should join the Imperials. Here’s why:
    1) THEY TRY TO CUT YOUR HEAD OFF!
    2)You, nor any of the captured Stormcloaks, get a fair trial before THEY TRY TO CUT YOUR HEAD OFF.
    3)”Diplomatic Immunity” quest gives you a dossier on Ulfric Stormcloak with info on Ulfric’s torture. He’ll be the one who would fight the Dominion.
    4) This one reflects on your “backstab: idea- why would you let them in and waste valulable military units tracking down and eliminating a handful of thalmor? Do you let people sneeze on you just to let your immune system deal with the germs?
    5) Either side you pick, you are going to end up at war with the Dominion in the forseeable future. Fact is, the dragonborn is going to go in there and kick their butts.
    6) Ulfric Stormcloak is cooler than Gen. T.
    7) I have a computer version of Skyrim, and sometimes I make up battles when I’m bored. I’ve found that Stormcloaks generaly always beat Imperials, whether one on one or in battles of 20+. Stormcloaks are just better.
    8) Did I mention that the game begins with the Imperials trying to CUT YOUR HEAD OFF? I say, use your head and join the Stormcloaks, or join the empire and lose it.

  49. … … … … …Remember the Peace Treaty between the Imperials and the Stormcloaks, when Nirn was in danger by the World Eater? That was the moment when they all have realized that the Dragonborn had the ability to set down “any” army regardless of how many there are. Think about this; we are Dovahkiin, we have rights to even set down any army “including” the Thalmor, and we have enough force to bring the rightful Justice for all lives.
    (True, it’s a game, if by PC you all can actually break it anyhow by codes) The point is, as we all see the differences between both sides of them, even I had a difficult time on what to do with any of them, and I chose to stay neutral.

    But as I saw what was more comprehensible, the Imperials may have grown weak, “but” they still carry authority to the Eastern Trader Company that gives all provinces food, water, supplies etc. Not only that, but the Imperials carry the correct essential to order and freedom by submitting laws necessary for all citizens under any race. True, they may carry some harsh pulses by law, as they may seem like puppets to the Thalmor. But remember, if the Dragonborn took place between all factions, the whole Chess board falls apart, leaving only one piece left standing: Dovahkiin.

    If one has chosen to side with the Stormcloaks, then there is only one fate bringing to Skyrim itself, I’m afraid: War and Death to all. Even if the Stormcloaks managed to regain their homeland, they’ll however have no more advantages against the Thalmor that will take over the Empire, thus ending the chess board.

    Here is my only best answer for all of this: I have chosen the Imperials, only to end the war, and to end Ulfric’s life by right as Dovahkiin, nothing more. And if the Imperials intend to do anything rash before me or to the innocent, “OR” if the Thalmor intend to strike, I will be there to end their paths. So to say this: Never underestimate nor betray the Dragonborn. Do what is right under the name of Balance.

  50. by ysmir what have i done i completely wiped out imperial forces without no regret ugh… i am damned thalmor have more advantage now damn you ulfric you decieved me you bastard.

  51. Before you Imperial Legionares have a heart attack there are many points I like about it. It is a very disciplined military force that is very organized. It has a great history, and It once showed great strength of the human race. however it is now truthfully now just a puppet of the Thalmor. No matter how well it is enforced. It is cowardly to even agree to deny your God. Especially the one who founded your Empire. Denying Heritage so that an Emporer can keep his throne. Anything he does will just get overruled if it infringes on the. White-Gold Concordat by the Thalmor who are the actual rulers of the Empire. Even without the Thalmor.the Empire is getting weaker and weaker by the day. The Stormcloaks on the other hand. Are true to their blood and. Realize that the White-Gold Concordat never should have happened It was sacrilegious to the Human Race and to the Empire.
    happened

  52. The High Elves (and thus, the Aldmeri Dominion) outlawed Talos worship because they have always hated the god Talos. Talos is siad to have mantled the dead god Lorkhan (play Morrowind if you don’t understand) upon his said transition from mortality into divinity; Akatosh (the prime of the nine divines, and father of Alduin) and Lorkhan are the two dieties recognized by all faiths on Nirn; Lorkhan is assumed by the High Elves to be the Trickster god, directly responsible for the reason that High Elves are mortal. This is the reason Talos worship is outlawed.
    Additionally, I believe that the Dovahkiin could become the reincarnate of Talos (Tiber Septim), in that the Dovahkiin is Dragonborn, as was the first Emperor. Perhaps Talos dies with the White-Gold Concordat, but the new Dragonborn becomes the dominant Dov in Mundus, and perhaps thus mantles Lorkhan anew, as Lorkhan’s death was originally the catalyst that created Nirn.

  53. I say join the stormcloaks because tullius is a pussy when he is wounded he basically begs for his life and surrenders. someone like that has no right to rule an army ulfric fights to the death and is right on the front lines of the final battle which is how a true king should be.

  54. I believe the civil war argument will never truly end.
    At least until TES VI.

    Anyway, I support the Empire. Because:

    -Divide et impera, if Skyrim successfully separates itself from the Empire whoever gets attacked (High Rock, Cyrodiil or Skyrim) will have less support than with an united Empire. Not to mention trade, Markarth/Windhelm/Winterhold/Dawnstar don’t have the terrain to sustain crops and “food-generating activities”. If Skyrim lost Whiterun/Riften in a war food would become an issue real quickly.

    -The Empire had to sign the White-Gold Concordat because they had no other option at the time. Hammerfell was renounced as a province but had unofficial Legion support in fighting back the Thalmor. It was the only choice that would have let the Empire rebuild its armies

    -Execution at the beginning of the game: You were caught with terrorists (because legally that’s what Stormcloaks are for the Empire). Do you seriously expect at a time of CIVIL WAR not to be executed? Remember, I doubt that any culture on Tamriel has the same concepts of “human rights” that we have in the XX-XXI century. All in all, it’s the most logical thing to do. I don’t like it but I understand why that captain chose so. And don’t kid yourself, had the sides been reversed I doubt the Stormcloaks would have acted any differently.

    -The killing of High King Torygg: He was doomed the moment Ulfric challenged him. He knew Ulfric wielded the Thu’um (he used it at Markarth, remember) and if he refused, he would have been considered weak. So he had no choice but to accept.

    -Corruption: The most corruption I see in Skyrim happens near Stormcloaks:
    Windhelm, quest “Rise in the East”. Family has deals with pirates to hamper competition
    Markarth, Thongvor Silver-Blood, Stormcloak supporter, tied with the family that deals with the Forsworn and uses thugs to keep dissenters down.

    On the imperial side, we have
    Riften, the Black-Briars (which I assume we all know)
    and…?

    Basically no one is right or wrong. I just believe that Imperial control is better for non-Aldmeri Dominion races in the long run.

    • Skyrim ( Stormcloaks ) vs Empire reminds me of the 13 colonies ( USA ) vs the British.
      The 13 colonies were mostly composed of farmers. Poorly equipped, poorly trained, poorly organised and few ressources.The 13 colonies believed strong in their cause ( just like the Stormcloaks ) and became independant . Through hard time and hard work you can accomplish anything and everything .
      By the way , why should i join a crumbling and corrupt Empire , puppets of the Thalmor.
      Call Ulfric Stormcloak opportunist , selfish , power-hungry if you want and you are right, but know this , Titus Mede II , his father Titus Mede I was an officer in the imperial army when the Empire had no emperor after Oblivion . The Elder Councel was ruling the Empire back then and they were looking for a successor for the throne but Titus Mede saw an opportunity to get a good “promotion” so he “surely”got tired of waiting , Titus and his men invaded the imperial city , killed the members of the Elder Councel and proclaimed himself Emperor even if he was not Dragonborn ( Dragonblood ) But for Ulfric Stormcloak ‘s defense , he chalenged and killed Torygg “A Nord Way” Man vs Man , My Power vs Your Power , a real Dual and if Torygg did not have any power well that ‘s too bad. In real life , if some dude wants to fight me and get his ass kicked because of me being a black belt , well that ‘s too bad for you , you should have learned some martial art moves . Be ready and at your best or get your ass kicked like never before.
      Maven Black-Briars becomes Jarl of Riften
      If the Empire keep control of Skyrim.
      Maven Black-Briars = Good friend of the Thalmor , read the wiki .
      You expect me to believe the Empire when they say they will rid Tamriel of the Thalmor?
      Who do you think put Maven Black-Briars Jarl of Riften?
      Answer is the Thalmor .
      The Empire is no more .
      Countries will emerged stronger independant.
      Each races must have its own country , their own laws . If Dark Elves want to live in Skyrim , then become a citizen and respect the law of Skyrim .
      Let’s cooperate together and get rid of the Thalmor and then focus our strengh to fight the real threat of Tamriel , The Deadra .
      Always has been .

      • This game was made for joining the Empire.

        You are the Dragonborn. It is said that you are destined to lead people to a brighter future. If you side with the Empire and then kill the Emperor Titus Mede II ( Dark Brotherhood Quest ) , you will maybe and i insist on the maybe , become Emperor and actually lead people like you are destined to do .
        Which will not happen if you side with the Stormcloaks since it is Ulfric Stormcloak who will likely become High King of Skyrim . Unless during the “Moot” ( which is a reunion of the Jarls of Skyrim where they elect a new High King of Skyrim) , Ulfric Stormcloak and the Jarls decide it is You ( the Dragonborn ) who will become High King of Skyrim .

        Huge bug section following .

        I sided with the Stormcloaks and since we are now independant , i still see Imperial soldiers with Stormcloak prisonners wandering Skyrim as if nothing changed . Ok if i sided with the Empire , but come on …make an effort Bethesda.

        If i attack Imperial soldiers escorting a Stormcloak prisonner without freeing the Stormcloak prisonner first and all that near à Stormcloak fortress , i get a bounty and Stormcloak soldiers atttack me and the Imperial soldiers . It is like i was just trying to rescue my Stormcloak brother . That is awful Bethesda .

        Some Stormcloak soldiers even say to me ” Thanks for re-opening the Eastern Empire Company “. Why do they care? Since it belongs to the Empire. ( awful ).

        There is a Thalmor agent ( High Elf ) dressed in Stormcloak outfit near Riften who gives a quest to retrieve a Dragon Mask. He said it was Galmar Stone-Fist who ordered the retrieving of the Dragon Mask. Like there will be High Elves in Stormcloak army in the near future… If u side with the Empire, the Thalmor agent is dressed like an Imperial so that is more OK but like a Stormcloak… Awful.

        Many things like Penitus Oculatus agents ( Imperial bodyguards for the Emperor ) that are still in Solitude, even if Solitude is under Stormcloak rule. Awful.

        Near Castle Door in Solitude there are stairs that lead to a room where many Thalmor are “hiding” inside, even if Solitude is under Stormcloak rule. Now that is awful.

        Imperial soldiers in Dawnstar and even Windhelm , both cities under Stormcloak rule. Awful.

        Flags of the Empire in stores in the Gray Quarter in Windhelm. Awful.

        Lod at Falkreath says ” I am loyal to Dengeir first and the Empire second. It is just like you do not need to say that anymore since the Empire is gone and Skyrim is independant . Awful.

        And many more.

        This game was made,

        75% for the player to join the Empire.
        25% for the player to join the Stormcloaks.

        Bethesda took more time making this game for player to join the Empire than for the player to join the Stormcloaks.

        I did both the Empire and the Stormcloaks storyline.

        After what i mentionned , it is hard for me to join the Stormcloaks.

        In The Elder Scrolls VI . I do not know how they gonna sort this mess out.

        I have not decided yet who i will join between the Empire or the Stormcloaks.

        I am still thinking about it.

  55. First of all the the imperials ain’t of the same blood as nords, when you create your own character in the begining their is an imperial race, also the Thalmor are homosexual elves who don’t give a damn about nords or anyone, as I played the game I have realized that the Thalmor are extremely stupid and foolish, and the stormcloaks what religious freedom, so instead of siding with the imperials and “licking their boots” fight for the true nords of skyrim, and yes some nords are in the imperial army but who cares? Also some people call Ulfric a racist but I find that very funny cause this is a game and their is no such thing as racism is a video game, so if the dragon born sides with the stormcloaks all will be good and if with the imperials the Thalmor will continue to harass the citizens on skyrim that believe in Talos and yea, point is kill all the mentally confused thalmor and fight for Ulfric, also it is said that he murdered the high king with his voice, another funny and stupid lie, he slide a knife to his heart, and their wasn’t actually a true high king in skyrim for generations, the kings were just oligarchies not true kings, atleast Ulfric made so good changes to skyrim, cause he took the first steps to truly lead skyrim to a true high king, and yea, the stormcloaks might be rebels but they can handle anything.

  56. reasons why i didn’t join the imperials:
    1. In case you played oblivion, you could tell the empire was screwed so why help fight for a side that is going to lose to the elves regardless if they win the civil war.
    2. The imperials tried to kill me in the beginning of the game even though i wasn’t on the list. that pretty much set it in stone for me.
    3. i saw it as a revolution because those that lived there saw unfair laws that they didn’t agree to. much like the american revolution. I also think that the stormcloaks will defend skyrim much better than the legion because they’ll be fighting for their homeland, making them harder to beat. but they give you a choice for a reason so whatever you pick i’m sure you have good reasons for it.

  57. Listen across history many of wars and battle were over two things. Power and religion, use the USA we left a stronger nation better military and still won. Freedom had been fought along with religion since the dawn of man. Does it matter it is all under personal preference there is no good or evil only opinions and beliefs. Its the belief of freedom the belief of Talos they fight for. No one dies for Ideas but many will die for just one Belief.

  58. Though partially I agree with a lot of this, I would say this. Ulfric IS egotistical. Greatly. He wishes to be immortalized. The stormcloaks that follow him are quite similar in some ways, all of them whining and complaining that ‘oh you wont let us openly worship Talos blah-blah-blah’ really, not too many NORDS seem to give a crap. It’s called SECRETLY worshiping!

    However there is some justice to Ulfric’s cause. He helped out in Markarth I think it is, in exchange for Talos worship. He was CRUCIAL to that, without his help, they would’ve lost that place. BUT, to go full out war cause someone broke a promise is a bit immature. Really? Ever just think ‘Hey, maybe there’s a reason for this ‘betrayal’?’ Nope, apparently not!

    On the flip side, the Imperials are no better. They do t seem to realize they are puppets, and really, the empire should be able to do better. BUUUUUT they don’t. Like really, is it THAT hard to explain your situation, realize you have a common enemy, and just team up to kick @$$?

    Oh, and the argument about losing soldiers if the Imperials go to war with Ulfric and they are weaker is just… No. Cause, uh hey, the dragonborn is a LITTLE bit stronger, so let me make a fourth offer…

    4) The Dragonborn teams up with the empire, the imperials lose little to none soldiers, and they gain control of all of Skyrim, recruit soldiers, and the Thalmor are suddenly faced with the strongest force yet, including legions of soldiers, Well-trained Blades, and the Dragonborn him/herself.

    The end.

    • u people are wrong in every reason…, god don’t u people even think, both sides wants the thalmor dealt with but which sides is really loyal and really wants the leader of the thalmor’s head on a pike. u can see the imperials are cowards because is all about the gold. The imperials could have defeated the thalmor with a powerful blow but the only reason the faithless imperial dogs surrended to the Aldmeri Dominion was because they had the imperials bastards at the balls. They surrended because cyrodill so called the state of Tamriel was being raped. But when the other states of Tamriel was suffering a great amount of pain from the Dominion, did the Empire stop the war, nooooooo!!!!!!!. So now u know which side u should be on i hoped i made myself rather clear. This article is rather convincing. So the imperials are the threat not the stormcloaks

      • You people? What does that mean, you people? In fact I have no idea what you were trying to say in this whole piece let alone why I’m wrong about everything in my life.

  59. Well u must be an imperial then, disagreeing what is right and accepting what is wrong, the empire is destined to fall. And we must not get in the way of that that is why the stormcloaks were borned they are the true sons and daughters of skyrim

  60. The biggest problem with all of these comments and with the site it’s self is that it’s doing just as it is discribed in the game and being one sided only a couple people showed the view from either the stormcloaks or the imperials. Now as one comment said thier is no good or bad side in the war it is just how you precive it. Now i am not saying that both don’t do crapy stuff but they both also have thier reasons and sides. But the real answer is it don’t matter, go out fight dragon,s kill thalmor don’t worry about polotics. Here most people like imperials go imperial just fight dont be debating come on just go crazy. I mean for real get a life, win some money, kiss a girl just get out the champ ( sniff they grow up so fast) PEACE LOVE and kill the thalmor

  61. ok I know this post is like a year late but down near riften to the left the is a route that leads to elven land and the stormcloaks RULE so dissing them bro

  62. Extract from Thalmor Dossier: Ulfric Stormcloak: ” Status: Asset (uncooperative), Dormant, Emissary Level Approval

    Description: Jarl of Windhelm, leader of Stormcloak rebellion, Imperial Legion veteran

    Background: Ulfric first came to our attention during the First War Against the Empire, when he was taken as a prisoner of war during the campaign for the White-Gold Tower. Under interrogation, we learned of his potential value (son of the Jarl of Windhelm) and he was assigned as an asset to the interrogator, who is now First Emissary Elenwen. He was made to believe information obtained during his interrogation was crucial in the capture of the Imperial City (the city had in fact fallen before he had broken), and then allowed to escape. After the war, contact was established and he has proven his worth as an asset.The so-called Markarth Incident was particularly valuable from the point of view of our strategic goals in Skyrim, although it resulted in Ulfric becoming generally uncooperative to direct contact.

    Operational Notes: Direct contact remains a possibility (under extreme circumstances), but in general the asset should be considered dormant. As long as the civil war proceeds in its current indecisive fashion, we should remain hands-off. The incident at Helgen is an example where an exception had to be made – obviously Ulfric’s death would have dramatically increased the chance of an Imperial victory and thus harmed our overall position in Skyrim. (NOTE: The coincidental intervention of the dragon at Helgen is still under scrutiny. The obvious conclusion is that whoever is behind the dragons also has an interest in the continuation of the war, but we should not assume therefore that their goals align with our own.) A Stormcloak victory is also to be avoided, however, so even indirect aid to the Stormcloaks must be carefully managed.

    • Yes, this is the awnswer. The thalmor want the stormcloaks to take out the empire in skyrim, making the imperial army weaker, the thalmor can easily wipe out the stormcloaks as well. Thats why the imperials have to win. weither you be a nord or imperial fighting for the imperials.

      If they happen to bring out another game in afew years time there will probably be an option to weither you defeated the stormcloaks or imperial army then leading to what will happen with the thalmor and so on.
      And being able to defeat them as you are always the good/evil hero of the game

  63. Well, I have found a bunch of angry people who are on there computer vigorously typing paragraghs about a game JUST SHUT UP AND PLAY THE GAME IT DOESN’T FUCKING MATTER WHO YOU CHOOSE JUST PLAY THE GAME!

  64. This is a game people..BOTH SIDES have cons, both have pros. Ultimately the aldmeri dominion wins in most cases no matter what the outcome, the one that’s least pleasing to them is a stormcloak victory, which is why I chose stormcloaks. Plain and simple, the imperial legion winning is something they’d prefer over a stormcloak win, so I didn’t go that path,

  65. IMPERIALS ARE AWESOME !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

  66. I agree with a TON of comments posted here but I think the majority of the the people commenting are neglecting one HUGE FACT! In the game You are the friggin’ Dragonborn! Whatever side you choose, you are now the power behind that side. You have the power to overthrow the opposing faction in the civil, and then continue on to hypothetically win the war against the Thalmor (which would be a cool expansion). My personal preference was to side with the Stormcloaks but this is due to my being a bit of a viking/celtic nut and their culture/beliefs demonstrating it more but at the same time I like the personalities of the Imperials better. But in either case, I think that your choice should just be with whoever you LIKE and NOT who you think is: in union with the Thalmor, or not in union with them, or who could defeat the Thalmor, or who couldn’t beat the them. Remember, you can potentially become the superpower to turn the tide of war in whichever way you want!

  67. Tullius is weak as f*ck, when i went to kill him with Ulfric he blamed the Thalmor and surrendered, instead of being an honorable man. When I watched a video of Ulfric’s death, he just sat on his throne, he didn’t need to blame anybody. Also Tullius wasn’t respectful to the player afterwards, after anything that you had done to him. To be honest it sickens me SO MUCH to see how many people support the weak empire and the reasons for them doing so are just pathetic. Sorry for my bad english.

    • Most of it just from paying attention in-game to conversations and talking with everyone you meet, and it all adds up.. some of it is from actually reading the text from books.. The rest, you can probably find on UESP.net (Unofficial Elder Scrolls Pages) with is a super-detailed wiki with just about everything you could possibly need to know =)

  68. I’m siding with the Empire because Ulfric only proved he was a power hungry baby during the negotiation of a truce at High Hrothgar. But I’d also like to add that whenever I read articles or comments like this no one ever says anything about the Nords starting a senseless war against the Snow Elves… After completing the Dawngaurd expansion and read deeper into the stories and lore about what happened to make Skyrim “The Home of the Nords”. They killed off majority of race while the rest were left under the careless rule of the Dwarves who poison and blinded them to make sure that they would never attempt a rebellion against them.

    • Andy, the only reason the Nords waged war against the Snow Elves is because of the Snow Elves genocide of the Nord race. That event was know as the “Night of Tears”

  69. I’d much rather PLAY THE GAME than fuss about with the politics. No matter which side you join,or even if you don’t you are still the freaking dragonborn and can pretty much decide what happens yourself. Personally I’d rather be fighting dragons than letting Ulfric achieve his self centered goal of becoming the HK or watching imperials give up what they believe in to save their own asses.

  70. Ok i just want to say this…

    I did both sides and when i did the stormcloacks they gave me nicknames and Ulfric decided to make me part of his kin and when i did the
    empire one they just gave me ranks and thats all they did. No matter what side that you choose its the same type of missions who go to a
    camp get orders and when you do a little mission you comeback to the camp then take a fort and after that report to Solitude/Windhelm.

    I chose Stormcloaks because there just the better of the two evils i mean yeah the empire is pretty bad but remember if you talk to some
    guy in whindhelm he says that when a nord village outside of whindhelm gets raided by bandits Ulfric sends soilders but if a different race gets attacked he doesnt even care..

    Just think about this for a while then go back with your lifes.

    • Arthenoux….my only imput on what would do most damage to the thalmor is this: as dragonborn you can negotiate a peace treaty with both sides if you defeat alduin the first time, that way if you do it early on, neither sides have to lose too much lives in the civil war and both sides can think of a way to get rid of the thalmor. Besides i dont like the blades because they want parethenoux the leader of the greybeards dead because he is a dragon and dont beleive he has changed for the better even though hes helping the dragonborn and not the dragons.

  71. Obviously the best course of action is to join the Imperials, kill Ulfric and his cronies, thus making skyrim part of the Empire again. Then assassinate the Emperor and leave both snakes without a head. That’s where the Dragonborn comes in and and Fus Ro Dahs the Thalmor’s pretty black man dresses off and becomes the first ever self proclaimed Dictator of Tamriel. duhhhh

  72. Pingback: An Ablestate of the Union Address for 2013 | the ablestmage press

  73. Whoa… Why did I read EVERY SINGLE COMMENT WORD FOR WORD ON HERE!!! Took my like 1 hour to read all of it… Dang… Lol.

  74. As I read through this article and comments I kept getting more and more mad. I’m so sick and tired of everyone’s THEORIES, not a single person on here was right about skyrim and its rebellion, many people kept saying ‘do your homework’ well I garuntee I have done more research than anyone on this post. You want to know the truth about skyrim? Here it is. THESE ARE FACTS NOT THEORIES

    http://www.reddit.com/r/skyrim/comments/pwf9m/can_everybody_please_stop_blaming_ulfric_for/

    I would like to see anyone challenge this link. Please, try me.

    • I sided with the empire even though I regret it now. For those of you who will like to think deeply into this topic go ahead.. A comparison to the civil war in skyrim is the revolutionary war in America. The colonists stand for freedom and what they think is right for their country, just like the nords in the stormcloak army. The empire are just the kid getting bullied around at school giving the bully ( the dominion) their money without a fight . SPOILER ALERT*** at the end if you chose the stormcloaks . And you are at the part where you kill general tullious , he says he gives up and wants to join u , ulfric responds with saying that’s not the real empire I know… At the end when you killed the general and the legate , someone mentions that what will happen now ? And someone else replies the dominion wants to fight us now .. The most realistic sequel to this game would be the war of ” Man vs. Mer ” mer is another name for elf. In summary , it doesn’t matter what choice you make you will win the war and prevail victorious , or you cab call it to a stop and make them compromise to defeat the dragons like the game wants you to .

  75. I’m an Altmer, I sided with the Empire. Whenever I see a Thalmor, I kill them with fire. It doesn’t matter who you join, YOU ARE DRAGONBORN!!! You can stop entire armies with illusion magic, call Odahviing to destroy everything, why not conjure your own army of dremora?! (well, only 2, but re-summon them ;D) I am dovahkiin, champion of all the daedric princes, archmage of winterhold, harbringer of the companions, guildmaster of thieves, listener of the dark brotherhood, slayer of alduin, etc etc etc!!! >:D I WILL RULE!!! AHAHAHAHAHAAAAAA! Plus, I got the apocalypse spell pack! :)

  76. correct me if im wrong but ulfuric challenged the high king of skyrim according to nord tradition. He didn’t really commit any crimes and true nords who wanted to be free backed a powerful leader who offered it. Im not sure who initiated the first battle but I assume the imperials came to ulfuric for his crime and he didn’t and his people didn’t let them take him in.

  77. I agree that the Imperials are a better choice but I believe there are some points you could have made, which you did not, that would have substantially boosted your argument, so I will list those, as well as the points you have already made, which form my argument for why the Imperial legion is the better option. I will save the most important reason for last.

    1. Ulfric does, in fact, have racist tendencies. The dunmer within his city are essentially shoved into ghettos and Ulfric rarely is concerned when non-nordic peoples are threatened within his hold.

    2. The Empire is not responsible for the ban on the worship of Talos, the Aldmeri Dominion and the Thalmor are. The White-Gold Concordat signed at the end of the Great War was a delaying tactic to allow the Imperial Legion to recover from their devastating losses at the Battle of the Red Ring. The Empire has no real problem with Talos-worship and did not, in fact, enforce the ban with any great alacrity.

    3. Ulfric spent no effort whatsoever to peacefully bid for the secession of Skyrim other than his attempts to discuss the idea during the moot which was convened to elect the new High King of Skyrim. The newly elected High King actually was very interested in Ulfric’s ideas and respected Ulfric as a veteran commander. When Ulfric traveled to the High King’s court to challenge him to a duel, the King welcomed him into the city with open arms, in the belief that Ulfric had come to further discuss the notion of Skyrim’s independence. Ulfric then proceeded to slay the King in a duel which the King could not reasonably refuse, for fear of appearing cowardly which would have been seen as grounds enough to call for another moot to depose the King and elect a new one, as well as using a thu’um against him, a weapon for which the young and inexperienced new High King could not possibly have prepared.

    4. HIstory shows us what happens when massive empires collapse, which the secession of Skyrim would threaten to do, even without the presence of another large empire. When Rome collapsed, humanity fell into the Dark Ages for hundreds of years, with only the Catholic Church to provide any sort of stability among the feudal nations of medieval Europe. The fragmented Empire and the many resulting sovereign nations were extremely weak. It is, quite frankly, a miracle that they were not promptly conquered by the Arabs to the south. Now imagine the consequences of a similar Empire collapsing almost immediately following a massive and bloody war with another massive empire, one which was still incredibly bitter about it and suffering from such a severe degree of racism as the High Elves of Tamriel suffer from. That second empire would sweep through the lands of the first with a wrath unequaled by anything we’ve ever seen.

    5. Finally, the Empire is the main thing standing in the High Elves’ way of their ultimate goal: immortality at the cost of all of humanity. Have none of you asked yourselves what purpose is served by the Thalmors’ banning of Talos-worship? If you look through the lores of the Elder Scrolls game, it is said that Talos is, in fact, the first Emperor of Tamriel, Tiber Septim, ascended to godhood. When he assumed the role of a god, he took it upon himself to ensure the continuity of the stability of time and space. The High Elves, whose souls are of an Aedric nature, seek to destroy this continuity in order to be realeased from reality as it is and assume what they believe is their rightful status as immortal. To do this, they need to remove Talos and the initial step was to ban worship of him. The second step is much more horrific. In order to remove Talos, they must first remove all who revere Talos by committing the largest genocide ever conceived of, literally wiping out the entire human race to ensure that no worshippers of Talos survive. Additionally, were they to achieve these goals, their endgoal would literally be the destruction of reality of which we, the human race, are an integral part. The Empire’s military might is one of the primary reasons that none of these goals are ever fulfilled and if the Empire collapsed and Tamriel split into various weak and unorganized factions, their goals become almost infinitely more probable.

    Save the human race. Join the Imperial Legion.

    • True dat, ( I don’t read into books in skyrim) plus ulfric, who’s main goal is to lift the white gold concordat , instead of attacking the thalmor directly and team up with the empire which would enhance their chances of winning by astronomical numbers , he attacks the empire , which cripples his chance , and if Bethesda does another game it will be the man vs mer war , you are meant to play as the storm cloaks cuz you stand for justice and its your job to free the oppressed.LONG LIVE TALOS

      • Ironic, since the Stormcloaks oppress people just as much as the Elves do. Altmer only care about Altmer. Stormcloaks only care about Nords.

      • The elves are the enemy if the empire had kept their wword we would not be in this situation we are going to worship talos if you like it or not now we should join together and put those elven bastards down on their knees. Then we can set up a moot and decide the high king of skyrim freely and the goverment behing him or her befor disscusing with the empire a new treaty so we are not part of the empire but we are friend . After all we are all man and it is the alt mer who deserve to pay for their crimes . Look at it we would have the imperials redguards bretons and possibly the nords if u let us worship our god ! Against hight elves and wood elves who don’t even what to fight . They only do so to stop war between them and their eleven brothers I am a STORMCLOACK and I am for one definetlley not racist I respect all including the dun mer argonians and khajitt alos the bos mer reguarda and bretons and all know I battle the empire it does not mean I cut down any one who is born imperial but if any legionir steps foot in my land and takes away my god even sterrendar will not have the power to grant him mercy .
        And atleast were not sexcist

        For some sovenguard awaits but for hell I shall make sure it is crowded with thalmor when I get there . Hail to ulfric high king of skyrim

  78. The way ulfric planned his rebellion was not to smart, he needed to make friends with the empire and team up them and attack the thalmor together

  79. If the dragonborn sides with empire and ends the civil war, then the empire can gather resources, break the treat and convince the redgaurds to join them in a combined assault against the dominion with dragonborn leading the assault

  80. WOW! I was looking in on how to defend the Thalmor and came up with this @_@ Confuse me so bad xD I’m on both sides and playing on both sides.
    As I played on both sides. I came to like the Empire more. But Less on Stormcloaks.
    My reasons
    I see the Empire trying to take advantage of Skyrim to position their self on over powering the Thalmor and war on them again in greater numbers.
    And for Stormcloaks. I see them as Thalmor’s plot to make the Empire weaker. As in, Stormcloaks would rage war on the Empire weaken them and the Thalmor finish off both the Empire and the Stormcloaks.
    BUT! It might be a choice on if a war would come to be if only if the Dragonborn decides on it. I just want the Thalmor DEAD :x3 I sick of that which Eldowen wtf her name is again.
    Correct me if I’m wrong.

    EMPIRE FTFW~

  81. I think that the Stormcloacks are sort of an Aldmeri puppet,sorry if someone else wrote it and I didn’t read it,by weakning the Empire in the North the Aldmeri could easily attack from both South and North putting the Empire into a sandwich cause the Stormcloacks would be too weak to defend against the Aldmeri attacking from the north by ships and the Empire would be 1 General less and a few hundards soldiers less which could be used for defeating the Aldmeri instead and recreating the Tamriel as it once was during Talos/Tiber Septim a whole Empire.

  82. Potential spoilers alert, not that people above me haven’t already mentioned it, but the points seem lost in the invective.
    *
    *
    *
    During the Diplomacy quest, you come across some dossiers on Ulfric and others. The Ulfric dossier mentions that he was an unwilling (unwitting) agent of the Thalmor. He was essentially tricked into giving up information that was supposed to help the Thalmor against the Empire and now won’t deal with them and hates them (not just because the Talos ban). When you have the moot at High Rothgar, Ulfric is pissed that there is a Thalmor at the table with him and starts to make a comment to her about the past, but drops it (pay attention to the conversation)

    Essentially the Thalmor want the civil war to continue and were ready to intervene in Ulfric’s execution, but the dragon beat them to it. They don’t want either side to win because it gives them the freedom to rebuild their strength and pursue their vendetta against Talos worship.

    Ulfric is a racist, power-hungry opportunist that used the cloak of “honor” to blindside the High King in a duel that he couldn’t win (since Ulfric had the Thuum). If he had dueled without using the Thuum and won, this would be a slightly different situation, though he would still be racist and power-hungry. Had he made his ability with the Thuum known, I’m sure the High King wouldn’t have accepted the duel. The Empire, while annoying that they are allied temporarily with the Thalmor, have the best intentions of everyone in mind and just seem to want peace. They aren’t trying to invade or conquer anyone…they are essentially the victims of Ulfric’s quest for power. The nords as a whole are honorable, but Ulfric and his cause are corrupt. It would make more sense to side with the Empire so they can end the civil war and regroup for the fight against the Thalmor.

    http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Skyrim:Thalmor_Dossier:_Ulfric_Stormcloak

    • Agreed. At the start of the game Ulfric is gagged so he can’t blab, and instead of chopping his head off first – you never leave the most dangerous prisoner standing around while you deal with others! – they take him to one side. Do they intend to execute everyone that was captured with him and then release him or let him escape to continue his campaign of disruption? Is he gagged because they fear the Thu’um? Or because they want to keep him quiet until the others are safely dead?

  83. I tend to side with the Stormcloaks simply because it is much more fun to fight an uphill battle than to just sit on your ass and defend a city. However, I do not share ther romanticized view that many players have of Ulfric. Ulfric is not only a self serving opportunist, but a theocratic dictator as well! He doesn’t want freedom of religion, he wants to impose Talos worship on the citizens of Skyrim, which justifies his prejudice against the other races in Skyrim, giving him a rationale to use the other Nords to force them out so he can have his all Nord Skyrim (With the possible exception of the Redguards). Just listen to the things he and his Men say “We’ll show those FAITHLESS DOGS…” “Tell them to pray to whatever Gods they still worship…” That’s the same kind of rhetoric that an Ayatollah would use! You can analogize the war between the Imperials and the Stormcloaks to the real life struggle with Quasi-communist China and Tibet. Tibet without freedom of religion is not cool, but neither is a lack of running water, electricity, technology and trade of various kinds and worse of all the reestablishment of the dalai Lama as a soveriegn Tibet’s leader who is NOT the good guy that simple minded Hollywood has convinced everyone that he is. Man of Peace who has soldiers trained by our own C.I.A. to fight the communists? Man of peace whose rules for speaking out against him involve the gouging out of eyes and death by tearing out a person’s entrails? Man of peace my achin’ ASS! (And I don’t give a rat’s ass if that’s an “insensitive” statement or not) Ulfric would have the same kind of bullshit theocracy if Skyrim was real. Even his own Men later admit at the war’s conclusion that they have misgivings about their leader.

    And as far as his being an intelligent strategist and an honorable “king” is concerned, read the Thalmor Dossier on him here: http://elderscrolls.wikia.com/wiki/Thalmor_Dossier:_Ulfric_Stormcloak if you haven’t already read it, it may shock you harder than urinating on an electric fence during a hailstorm!

    Stay neutral, make money…That’s my new philosophy. ;)

    • The Thalmor Dossier? Nah… read the Bear of Markarth. That paints an even worse picture. After the Forsworn surrendered to Ulfric, he killed every single man, woman, and child of them he could get ahold of. Again, AFTER they surrendered. Not only that, but he killed every single person old enough to swing a sword that didn’t fight alongside him. NORDS INCLUDED. People who didn’t fight were put to death the same as enemy soldiers. Hear that, all you neutrals? Ulfric’s coming after you next, if he wins.

      I’d much rather worship Talos and cut down every Thalmor Justicar that tries to stop me.

      • Wow! that was fucking EYE OPENING & I ain’t kiddin’ either. I told my Ol’ Lady about that & she said that the book could be in the Bards college. I’ve got to find that & read it myself. I totally believe you, as it fits Ulfric quite nicely, but I’m still going to read it just for the shock of seeing it in print!

        I still need to find the book she told me about that describes how the asshole Thalmor oppressed their own people by killing many of them & driving the rest out of the Altmer who wouldn’t go along out of Summerset Isle.

        Thanks!

  84. Anyone wondering what would happen what would really happen after the civil war had ended. Whichever side wins they would be outnumbered by the Dominion, but that is not a problem, because if this was included in the game then the Dragonborn would just kill everyone in the Dominion.

    With everything else in this game, nothing happens unless the Dragonborn does it. There’s no point in saying what would or wouldn’t happen with the Thalmor because of the outcome of the conflict, because whoever wins will have the Dragonborn on their side.

    • Good point. That’s probably the reason why some of the Women in White run have been known to say “This war is as stupid as this feud.” On the surface, that just sounds like something people who are sick and tired of being involved in a war would say, but who knows what the writers really had in mind? Maybe what you’ve just said is exactly what they were getting at.

      Again, Stay Neutral, Make Money.

  85. I dont get the stormcloaks reason. If Talos is Tiber Septim and Tiber Septim found the empire why would the stormcloaks be so quick to get at the empire of the man/god they are fighting for?

  86. A picture is worth 1000 words. The Empire has been reduced to 3 provinces, one of which (the largest one no less) is in dire need of reconstruction, the capital city itself having been burned almost to the ground during the war. The leadership of the empire (the emperor, advisers, generals..etc) is responsible for this very sad state of affairs. The White-Gold Concordat was a disgraceful and cowardly peace that not only weakened the empires territorial integrity and economy (by giving up Hammerfell) but struck a mortal blow to the morale and soul of all imperial citizens.

    The banning of Talos worship was not only a religious attack (which btw is far more significant and relevant than you seem to admit, being a majority religion in Skyrim). but one directed at the very foundation of the empire, to deny the divinity of the founder of the empire is to call into question that empire and all it has stood for (equality, diversity etc). It is simply unforgivable, and anyone who supports the emperor who signed it, or follows the generals who allowed it to happen should be killed out of hand.

    Ulfric may be racist and opportunistic but he is the result of his times, the separation along race lines didnt start with him but with his declared enemies, the Aldmeri Dominion, represented in Skyrim by the Thalmor, who btw enjoy the protection of the imperial forces. I can’t even believe we are discussing this, just as I couldn’t believe the initial post when I read it.

    Let me draw you a parallel. Lets say you are an American and America is fighting a war with whomever (North Korea for instance). Would you as a citizen support a peace treaty that gave away 10 states, disbanded the CIA, FBI and Homeland Security, and banned the worship of Jesus Christ ( a ban enforced by North Korean death squads going town to town and killing those owning bibles) ? Or would you pick up a rifle and say “Aw Hell No” (or words to that effect) and proceed to wage war ( killing those that opposed your pursuit of economic and religious freedom or die trying) ?

    • If you think it properly, If skyrim separates from the empire it won’t be affected if the dominion manage to destroy it, also you guys know the white gold concordat, that is the ban of talos. the aldmeri dominion came to the empire to propose this but since they refused the dominion invaded them and destroyed them resulting in what? that’s right, the concordat. meaning the war was for nothing, also after that the empire managed to annihilate the aldmeri forces in cyrodiil in the red ring war (or something like that), they had WON since their main force was destroyed but the scumbag emperor ended the war and left the only chance they had to destroy a weakened dominion. then they tried to shove the concordat on every province allied with the empire. In short words, the dominion won anyway. the red guards did not like it and they manage to push those elves away. if hammerfell could why not skyrim?. now the redguards are a stong race Like the nords, if they were to ally with eachother the dominion would be finished. I would not like elves telling me what to do, specially in MY own land. Ulfric is trying to push the empire and those elves away and if he is a racist the ones to blame are the fuckers sitting in the chairs of the empire counting the gold those elves gave them to accept the concordat.

      • You definitely have good insight where the socio-political side of the game is concerned and I am not one of those people who says “shut up and play the game” when it is clear that the game has a story involving a serious social, Theological and geo-political conflict. This story is worth exploring, However, I do believe that the player (at least in my case) would do well to focus on how the conflict can benefit himself/herself than to take a side soley on idealistic grounds. My next character is going to be a Redguard who will be (to borrow a term from D&D) “Lawful Good”. He will not be joining the TG or the DB and his whole source of income will come from the good deeds he will perform for others. In a case like his, I may just join the Stormcloaks-or stay neutral in order to establish a truce between the two. But for now, My Breton is a selfish, greedy, glory seeking character who would rather manipulate the present structure of government to his own ends. That means that he will most assuredly be joining the Empire as they are obviously capable of paying more than Ulfric can.

        This brings us to another possibly valid (albeit “lofty”) point to consider. Why use the game to create characters that will only explore one aspect of the human psyche? No one in real life can honestly say that they have never had thoughts of being a self serving douchbag (even to the point of robbery and murder) anymore than we can deny the fact that we have a need to feel good about ourselves by doing good for others. Why not vicariously experience as many different ways of thinking and being as the mind will allow us to with your character? That’s the beauty of gaming-you can be and do anything without real life reprisals.

        But to bring it all back to the war and the parallel that you created, I would like to think that I would be someone who would take up arms and fight those who oppose economic and religious freedom (Even though I am a secular humanist and a libertarian and would shed no tears if the department of homeland security and all of those other big government entites whose creators use to end our civil liberties ceased to exist). One thing I cannot go along with is your assertion that Ulfric’s bigotry should be overlooked because he is a “product of his times”. Right is right and wrong is wrong no matter how much good someone can accomplish. Again, that’s the reason why his most trusted men start to have doubts about him. In real life, Gandi was a basically good person who used non-violent resistence to liberate India from Colonial British rule; He was also a Man who hated blacks and refered to them as “Kaffirs” (Lower class or to put it simply “Niggers”) when he practised law in South Africa in the early 1900’s. He founded a newspaper when he was there (“The Indian opinion”) that spoke of blacks as people who were inferior to East Indians, and advocated segregation. If history doesn’t excuse him, why should Ulfric’s racism and religious bigotry be excused? There is nothing so special about someone who can rise above the prejudices of his time that Ulfric (or Gandi) couldn’t do likewise-especially when you consider how much suffering the Bosmer have endured from the Aldmeri, a group that he should be empathising with instead of persecuting.

        Lastly, Religion (esp christianity) has oppressed people more ruthlessly than any political ideology ever has. I would be just as quick to fight, kill or die to resist someone like Ulfric for being a theocratic dictator as I would the North Korean Death squads in your analogy.

        And I’ve truly enjoyed this discourse!

      • The red diamond war is where the empire killed the dominions main force . The empire is sexcist and ulfric is raceist . In my earlier statement I said I repsected all races but forgot orcs and for that I apologise there are four types of elf high , wood , dark ,orc.
        Alt, bos, dun, orc
        Someone also mentioned to explore other lifes by our charcters that is exactley what I do but I am on my no. 14 and intend on sticking with him .

  87. The Roman Empire invaded and captured almost the entire world that was known in that time, it was great an powerfull. And where is it now?!?! And the provinces that they owned still exist Germania, Spain, Britain, and the almighty and powerfull roman empire does not.
    All im trying to say , there is no point in arguing about what side should you fight stomcloack or Legion. My character is a nord , obviosly im going to kill anybody who invades my land . Fuck Ulfric and fuck Titus Mede , long live SKYRIM!

  88. I always liked the empire (seeing as they were the good guys in the first 4 games , and armour looks bad ass ) but if you finish the imperial campaing , after tulius has done hes speech , he will mention something about attacking the thalmor embassy , but will say only keep this between both of us , for now … (I also destroyed the dark brotherhood cause if i didnt they would have killed the emperor ) .

      • For those out there who belive that all stormcloack surrporters are fools my grammar is in perfect condition thank you
        Also skald jarl of dawnstar should leave his hold without guards to fight the war otherwise the imperials would overwelm dawnstar removeing him from power any way . As he is right by the imperial city .

        Now to my main subject all those who think that the aldemeri dominion are right will have their bodies torn apart . EMPIRE we worship what founded your dynasty now you let the elves punnish us all we are taking things into our own hands long live ULFRIC .

        Titus mead some say we hate him but that is just a personel opinion I happen to respect him just as I peirced his heart with my sword for he aceapted it with honour a true nord at heart if you ask me for that .
        Tulluis he is smart and should attack the thalmor embassy if doing so I would co-operate .

        I have served in the legion and I don’t regret it I dont hate imperial jarls either .

        We are the stormcloacks our voices will be heard with the thuum Praise to ulfric .
        Imperials would you make a treaty to attack the dominion ?

      • All new initiates to the Stormcloaks must recite the Oath:

        “I do swear my blood and
        honor to the service of Ulfric Stormcloak
        Jarl of Windhelm and true High King of Skyrim.
        As Talos is my witness, may this oath bind me
        to death and beyond…
        …even to my lord as to my fellow brothers
        and sisters in arms.
        All hail the Stormcloaks, the true sons
        and daughters of Skyrim!”

  89. I don’t get why people hate Maven Black-Briar so much – she isn’t buds with the Thalmor or the Empire, really, she’s just a practical businesswoman – “you scratch my back, I’ll scratch yours” and all that. Not to mention, there’d be no Thieves Guild or DB without her.

    I actually like Maven – she’s an ideal Jarl for a city like Riften, not Laila, she’s naive, and never really anything more than Jarl in name only. Really, I find the condescension and selfishness of characters like Maven and the Thalmor refreshing, and even entertaining.

    I support the Empire, and while I respect Ulfric as a worthy opponent, I’ve played the Stormcloak side a few times (wasn’t impressed, I think Thongvor Silver-Blood’s casual racism is far worse than Maven Black-Briar’s corruption), and the stereotypical Nord bluster about honour and freedom and Talos and long-winded attempts at inspirational speeches and all that got old quickly, and Ulfric quickly began to seem more like Heimskr than Ulfric. I actually like Tullius better, he certainly isn’t weak or cowardly, he just sincerely wants the war to end, and in times of war, a business-like approach is far more effective in a leader than a stupidly impassioned one like Ulfric and Galmar.

    I also don’t get the vendetta Stormcloak players have against the Emperor or Torygg, they really seem to hate them for no better reason than Ulfric said they were weak. I met both of them, the Emperor didn’t flee like the rest of the DB assassination targets, he accepted his end, and he departed Nirn with honour. As for Ulfric beating Torygg in a “duel” (needless to say I use the term loosely), his justification was literally that Torygg didn’t know how to shout or defend himself against Unrelenting Force (even you can’t do that when Ulfric spams you with it in combat) thus he was weak…I’m sorry, what? How the hell is the fight fair when you ragdoll him across a room using a shout then assassinate hm while he’s still stunned? That seems a lot more like murder to me.

    Anyway, I’ve read through this and I’ve found it’s the majority of the Stormcloak commenters that are the ones who are arguing overzealously, with poor grammar, and arguments that have already been refuted, in other words, showing all the mental capacity of their chosen faction “I LUV KILING MPERULS HEIL ULFRC MPERULS’R GAY THEY SUK THLMOR COC, TRYG WAS WEAK…blah blah blah”. That’s not to say that all the Stormcloak commenters are arguing that poorly, but they generally seem to be arguing like that.

  90. And here’s a summary of my opinion on the Empire and Stormcloaks, one Jarl at a time.

    Jarl Elisif the Fair – Young and inexperienced, she relies heavily on her court for guidance, luckily most of them have been around since the reign of Torygg’s father Istlod – the court wizard looked after Torygg when he was a kid, even if she is a vampire. But Elisif has the best interests of the people of Haafingar at heart, and is intent on keeping them safe, and she will no doubt learn to be a great leader one day.
    Jarl Idgrod Ravencrone – She has visions, and though some people, in game and IRL doubt this, she really has no reason to lie and both of her children express having had similar experiences. In her words, “in Hjaalmarch, there is little to rule, but much to teach, and so I am Jarl” which is true enough, her people are mostly a rabble of xenophobic, magic hating Nord peasants, and there are only 3 settlements in Hjaalmarch, all of which are fairly small and close together – Fort Snowhawk, Morthal itself, and Stonehills, a nearby mining community. Also, her husband and steward Aslfur acts effectively as a mediator between Idgrod and her people – he makes sure that all important concerns reach the Jarl, but at the same time that people don’t bother her with mundane problems which they won’t understand her advice for. Whether they appreciate it or not, she does care about the people of Hjaalmarch.
    Jarl Igmund – described as being young for a Jarl by the stableman, Igmund’s deference to his uncle and steward Raerek, who also served as steward to Igmund’s father Hrolfdir, is perhaps only natural. Raerek is a steward like Proventus Avenicci, cautious almost to a fault, but it has evidently served The Reach well. He does seem determined to destroy the Forsworn, which can only be a good thing. However, he has a tendency to delay discussing important issues, and is either unaware or wilfully ignorant of the Silver-Bloods’ Stormcloak sympathies, and their grasping, ambitious nature.
    Jarl Siddgeir – Young, lazy and self-indulgent, he wastes Falkreath’s money buying mead and clothes, and collaborates with bandits, so admittedly very far from being the best Jarl, and my personal least favourite Imperial Jarl. On the bright side, he does seem to show repentance for working with bandits when you help him so you can become Thane of Falkreath – “the cut they were giving me was good at first, but it’s time to come clean”. He also shows little interest in governance, so the “real” Jarl, his steward Nenya handles that, and she does her best to ensure that the people are treated fairly, which Siddgeir acknowledges and appreciates. When he does take an interest in governing, Nenya says he has a tendency to act too quickly, but he listens to Helvard and Nenya, so the people of Falkreath aren’t entirely screwed.
    Jarl Balgruuf the Greater – Admit it, he’s everyone’s favourite Jarl, and is the one we all knew almost from the beginning. An excellent and experienced political leader, military leader, and rather obviously based on LotR’s King Théoden of Rohan, Balgruuf is the model of a good Jarl, who is easily capable of dealing with his hold’s problems, and has a good balance of advisors – his steward Proventus, who advises caution, and his housecarl and personal friend Irileth, who prefers a much more head-on approach. He also has no problems raising a sword himself in defence of his people and his hold, as Stormcloaks will have seen, something Vignar is rarely seen doing. On the other hand, he is sometimes stubborn and hot-headed, just like Théoden, but hey, that’s Nords for you. He is still mostly even-tempered.
    Jarl Brina Merilis – Being a retired Legate, she is no-doubt an excellent military leader, but we don’t see much of her character besides that, and she doesn’t get a chance to prove herself as a political leader, though if Frida the alchemist’s words are anything to go by, before she became Jarl, people always looked to her for help rather than Skald, suggesting she’s at least an adequate politician. She always asks Horik (her housecarl) and Madena (her court wizard) to see to it that the people receive medical care and all the safety that is within their power to grant, should the war or dragons visit Dawnstar, so she cares deeply for the people of her hold and takes her duty as Jarl seriously. She is also not self-deceiving as Skald is, and is very honest in her statement that Dawnstar is not ready for dragon attacks, due to a shortage of arrows, coupled with the town’s design of wooden buildings and thatch roofs.
    Jarl Kraldar – A welcome contrast to most citizens of Winterhold, Kraldar is an optimistic, open-minded man who doesn’t shun the College, far from it, he embraces it, being one of the few to recognise that the College is the only thing keeping Winterhold afloat. A good man and no-doubt a good Jarl, controlling a hold as barren and inhospitable as Winterhold seems beneath him.
    Jarl Brunwulf Free-Winter – A good man who really does want the best for the people of Eastmarch, he is aiming to integrate the Argonians – that Ulfric shunned – into Windhelm, and renovate the Gray Quarter, and is reluctant to point fingers at who’s responsible for their plights – besides Ulfric and the Stormcloaks, which is deserved, to be fair – and acknowledges that the Nords will need time to adjust their beliefs, being “as stubborn as stone”. He is a good soldier and military leader, but with little political experience – besides representing the dark elves when petitioning to Ulfric – adjusting to the role of Jarl may be difficult for him.
    Jarl Maven Black-Briar – A good ally of the Thieves Guild, her ascension will no-doubt benefit them, though really it makes little difference, either way Riften is in her pocket, she is never exiled if you take it back for Laila after Season Unending. A shrewd businesswoman and apparently a shrewd politician too, she’s perfectly suited to the Jarlship of a city like Riften.
    Jarl Elisif the Fair – Heavily demoralised by the killing of General Tullius, Elisif seems to believe Skyrim is doomed, and I see no reason to disagree – the Empire needs all the help it can get to overwhelm the Thalmor and losing one of it’s heartland provinces is not going to help, and there is no way a rabble of magic/elf hating yokels wearing bear pelts are going to be a match for the Thalmor.
    Jarl Sorli the Builder – A stark contrast to Idgrod, Sorli is ambitious and doesn’t really seem to care about the people of Hjaalmarch, she says “Hjaalmarch isn’t much, but it’s a good start, I’ll make a name for myself here, then maybe work my way up to somewhere like Riften.” In other words, she only sees the people of Hjaalmarch as the means for an end. Even Jorgen, the mill owner, who spends most of his time complaining about Idgrod while she is Jarl, doesn’t like Sorli; “we’ve gone from having a Jarl who’s lost in her own head to one that’s only in it for herself. If this is the best Ulfric has to offer, maybe we would’ve been better off with the Imperials.”
    Jarl Thongvor Silver-Blood – Openly racist, Thongvor will have no problem ranting at you if you are an elf. Despite his claims that he will petition for Ulfric to send the militia once the war is over to drive the Forsworn out of the hills, his family’s antagonistic role in the quests The Forsworn Conspiracy and No One Breaks Out Of Cidhna Mine makes this hard to believe. Aside from his blatant racism, zealous hatred of the “heathen natives” (Reachmen, as in, the race themselves, not just the Forsworn), Nord supremacism and money grubbing tendencies, he’s pretty much living under the thumb of his little brother Thonar.
    Jarl Dengeir of Stuhn – Once a great Jarl, now he is insecure and paranoid. But he still fosters well-meaning to the people of Falkreath, both he and his maid/steward wish to do right by the people of Falkreath. Tekla’s lack of experience in anything other than doing the shopping and scrubbing floors should complicate things, however.
    Jarl Vignar Gray-Mane – Another one of Ulfric’s annoyingly zealous followers, like many of the others, Vignar conveniently ignores the fact that Emperor Titus only signed the White-Gold Concordat to preserve the Empire and keep the Thalmor happy while the Empire regathered its strength so it could fight back. His steward is a recovering alcoholic, and his housecarl is his poorly equipped, if spirited niece. Needless to say, his government is nowhere near as efficient as Balgruuf’s.
    Jarl Skald the Elder – He’s fond of ridiculing and bullying his servant Bulfrek (who to my pity is exiled with Skald), and is certainly not liked by his subjects either, Frida, Brina and Beitild all agree they don’t like him, and Leigelf implies he doesn’t like him either. Skald frequently ignores the counsel of his government, which consists of his housecarl and captain of the guard, Jod, and his court wizard, Madena. Not only is he arrogant, bullying and ignorant, he’s also an incompetent leader, willing to leave The Pale completely void of guards so that his men can go out and fight with the Stormcloaks. How the people of Dawnstar haven’t overthrown him in the 35 years he’s been in charge, I’ll never know.
    Jarl Korir – A miserable, pessimistic magic hater with a phobia of elves, Korir certainly seems to lack the wisdom required to lead, he even admits that he has no proof that the College caused the Great Collapse, but has no problem blaming them for it anyway. His wife and housecarl Thaena is no better, and he also has a son (oh joy) who he is brainwashing to be just as bigoted and incompetent as he is.
    Jarl Ulfric Stormcloak – I could go on forever about the lunacy of Ulfric and his cause, but I’ll keep it short. The lunacy is that Ulfric believes he is doing right by the people of Skyrim by expelling from the province the only political force in Tamriel that has even a remote chance of ever defeating the Thalmor. He is blind to the fact that his rebellion was exactly what the Thalmor wanted (they employed a similar tactic in Hammerfell – weakening the Empire by sowing lasting bitterness between them and their provinces), and that the unity the Empire provides is the only hope of stopping them. Even his own followers question his motivation – Jarls Laila and Dengeir do admit they believe that though the cause is just, to Ulfric, it’s all just a smokescreen for his ascension as High King of Skyrim. Personally, I despise his undiplomatic, propagandist, hateful, warmongering ways, but I respect him as a worthy enemy, with significant personal combat prowess and an admittedly charismatic speaker.
    Jarl Laila Law-Giver – A good woman to be sure, but she is naïve. As her steward Anuriel tells us during Compelling Tribute – “Laila is a simple, traditional woman. This makes it easy to manipulate her, but impossible to regain her graces once offended.” Indeed, she is being heavily manipulated by the Black-Briar family, and is completely ignorant to the threat the Thieves Guild poses, which suits Maven just fine, indeed, one of the Guild members sits next to her everyday without raising an eyebrow – Anuriel is, as confirmed in Compelling Tribute (Imperial version) a Guild infiltrator put in place as steward by Maven to help her keep Laila under her thumb. Exiled or not, Laila is never anything more than being Jarl in name only, Maven is always the one pulling the strings.

  91. Ah yes, we can relate this conflict to real life because the thalmor are more advanced than the Imperials or Stormcloaks… anyone know what I’m talking about? Take a look closely at this world and it’s conflict and technically the same thing is happening

  92. Thalmor Dossier – Ulfric Stormcloack: “obviously Ulfric’s death would have dramatically increased the chance of an Imperial victory and thus harmed our overall position in Skyrim.”
    “A Stormcloak victory is also to be avoided, however, so even indirect aid to the Stormcloaks must be carefully managed.”
    After reading this, I chose the Imperials, and this is based in a real information obtained in the game.

    http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Skyrim:Thalmor_Dossier:_Ulfric_Stormcloak

    • It also states that ulfric did not give away any information it also states that the city had broke before he did so any one else got to question what’s best for tamriel

      As for crippling the empire even more good once high rock is free aswell we will march on valenwood and nothing will stop us , tulluis wants a war and we are going to give it to him .

  93. It makes not a bit of sense to side with the Stormcloaks for the sake of the future. General Tullius says it himself, he states that the war is exactly what the Dominion wants and especially if the Stormcloaks win the civil war. If the Stormcloaks win the war in Skyrim, that takes away Skyrim for the Imperial Legion which not only makes it more difficult for the Imperial Legion to remain in charge of High Rock, it would most like start a revolution in High Rock similar that to the civil war in Skyrim. Crippling the Imperial Legion even more considering that they would only be in control of Cyrodill the Dominion would surely take action and strike war in the Empire yet again. With all of Nirn in seperate city-state type if governments, similar to how it was before the Septim Wars. The Dominion would easily take over all of Nirn because of victory if the Stormcloaks. Joining the Imperial Legion is the only logical thing to do because with winning the civil war, the Imperial Legion could grow to its’ prime again and gain the support of former Stormcloak soldiers and generals by pointing out their common goal, which is to wage war against the Dominion and successfully win the war. Long live the Empire!

    • If the empire are so strong why did they lose all of their other stated already sureley skyrim and very soon high rock will be set free from the shackles of the empire and their elven puppetmasters

  94. That is abseloutley right the empire deserves to burn to the ground and rot in hell the stormcloacks are what’s best for skyrim they are not stupid . They are the only one with the guts to fight back against the thalmor scum and will not rest untill the summerset isle is nothing but a ruin.

    Why ? Would the empire surrender now if at the turning point of the war when they were on elven land did they surrender .

    The redguards of hammerfell lead a rebbelion as stated in the game when you have to turn in the women working at the banned mare in whitrun . And so shall skyrim all hail ulfiric stormcloack true hight king of skyrim !!!

  95. I think both sides are wrong in various ways, and that the war on both sides should be geared towards the Thalmor and whoever are backing them up.

  96. The empire is corrupt , also elisif could be killed by a eleven assasin at any moment her thane errikurs bodyguard is highly know wizzard and there are so many elves in solitude it brings me joy to burn it .
    As for the she witch maven black-briar for too long she has polluted riften she is a perfect example as to the empire being impure . She is to close to the elves and when I am done with freeing skyrim I will put her in her place and personnally cut her head off with a skyforge steel greatsword ( I belive skyforge steel to be a honurable weapon as it is the most old forge known and is nordic it is used by the companions and it was my first ever personel weapon )

  97. Can I just say thank you to all of you? You have made me completely sure of my conviction that Skyrim is the best game I’ve ever played.
    The fact that a video game gets people to do such critical thinking, about politics of all things. Do you realize how wonderful this is?

    It’s war. It’s politics. It’s complicated and dirty, and nobody has clean hands. Everywhere you turn, there will be something dark. There is no such thing as innocence in Skyrim. The game is realistic as fuck, while still holding onto its fantastic nature. It’s almost surreal.

    And I think that’s wonderful. All things aside, can we all just take a moment to appreciate that?

    Awesome.

    Also, if any of you are fan fiction writers, turn all this ambiguity to your advantage! Can you imagine your Dovahkiin’s reaction when, as a loyal follower to the Stormcloaks, starts to find out all its dirty secrets? Same thing for the Legion!
    Or, if your Dovahkiin was aware of the pros and cons of both sides to start, the internal struggle of picking a side? Or if they don’t pick a side, there’s always the intrigue of the outsider’s perspective.

    Maybe I’m just a huge geek/nerd/dork/whatever, but I really enjoy all the possibilities there are with this game, both while playing and while not playing.

    Also, maybe I’m getting way off topic with this whole comment. *shrugs*

    Getting back to my initial point, thank you all. Seeing the different sides to this really opened up a lot of creative pathways for me. :D Also thank you for all the food for thought! Critical thinking is so good for one’s brain! :D

    Okay, I’m done plaguing you all with my bizarre ways. I’m off to write with all this inspiration!

    Thanks again!

    • Ack! I just noticed an issue with one of my sentences. “Can you imagine your Dovahkiin’s reaction… all its dirty secrets?” should not read the way it does, but rather like this:

      “Can you imagine your Dovahkiin’s reaction when, as a loyal follower to the Stormcloaks, he/she starts to find out all its dirty secrets.”

      I apologize for my grammar fail, as well as any others I may have missed (though please keep in mind that some are intentional, and the ones that weren’t should be pretty clear). Oh, I also apologize for any spelling errors. Sometimes there is a lapse between my brain and my hands, which, as I am rather hateful towards grammar/spelling errors, is rather unfortunate. It actually really bugs me >.<

      Oh, but I'm babbling. I apologize again.

      Good day!

  98. If all of you want realy know, its simple:

    A leader(Emperor or Higj King) in my opinion need to be a warrior, a man that understands of war, strategic plans, of lead an army a people.

    The current Emperor doesn’t is a warrior, so he is weak and cant protect the Imperial Territory and their people.

    The High King of Skyrim(Queen) by right Eli(some shit) don’t have nothing of warrior, doens’t undestands nothing of lead or fighting, then she cant protect Skyrim or their people.

    Ulfric Stormcloak, well, he is a veteran warrior, he have fight by the Empire, and fight by the Stormcloak’s.
    He is a racist bastard? Yes and No… Well he hates the Elves, well he have be tortured by Elves, and the Elves are trying to destroying his people, and try to delete the culture and historic of his country, soo in that case im be a racist too. But yes, not all the Elves belong to Almerian Dominion, but if you in 10 guys have 7 that are an enemy, will you trust in the others 3? Im don’t!

    Can be Ulfric a puppet of the Talmor/Almerian Dominion?

    If Ulfric are trying to save Skyrim why tha hell are him work to the Talmor? The sons of bitches that are torturing he’s people and trying to delete the Nord’s from Skyrim? That’s bullshit!

    Yes, the Stormcloak’s doens’t are a complete army like Imperials Army, but they are a young army, they are a army that after being created enter immediately on a war against a strong and good army that its the Imperial Army, soo give them a break.

    Thing’s that the Stormcloak Army have of good its the country that they are fighting for and their history.
    Skyrim have the best warriors of all Tamriel(the Nords), the strongest heros of the history of Tamriel are from Skyrim.
    One of the strongest Armys of Tamriel was created by a Nord Hero.
    A Emperor of the Emperi was a Dragonborn that are Nord.

    Some people say that the Stormcloak Army are weak in the magic, dudes the Skyrim have one of the best college’s of Tamriel, and in the future the Stormcloak Army can train their soldiers(i prefer call tehem of “warriors”) in magic with the mages of the College.

    Skyrim have the Dragonborn!
    The Dragonborn have the holder of the Blades(amazing warriors).
    Dragonborn is the leader of the Compannions/Circle.
    Dragonborn is the leader of Dark Brotherhood.
    Dargonborn is the leader of Thieves Guild and Nightgalle.
    Dragonborn can teach to the Stormcloak’s warriors the Thum’s/Shout’s.
    The Dragonborn can use the help of the dragons.

    Dudes, ok some things that im saying here are just speculations, but are true, EVERYTHING!!!

    Soo, yes, if the Stormcloaks of Ulfric take the control of Skyrim, that country(Skyrim) will be a strong opponent to both armys, Empire and Almerian Dominion.

    Almerian Dominion lose the influence in Skyrim, soo they lose a good expiation territory losing then a front of view against the Empire, soo will be weak on several points, and that will end with the treaty with the Empire.

    Empire lose a center of recruitment and lose the best warriors of their army. Lose too a strong territory and the one front against the Almeria Dominon. They have a front agains a new Kingdom(Skyrim).

    Soo, Empire and Almeria Dominion are weak due to the past war, with that the Stormcloak’s ahve a good probability of make a strong border againts the two enemies, not forget that Skyrim its a mountainous terrain with mountainous borders, and the Nord people are habituated to the cold climate and montainous terrain, soo that its a advantage against the two enemies.

    Soo, yes, i fight by Skyrim, i fight by the Nords, i fight by the Stormcloak’s of my King Ulfric.

    if you whant be a Imperial, go play Elder Scroll – Oblivion.
    Because i play Elder Scroll – Skyrim, and im a DRAGONBORN NORD WARRIOR!

    PS: I have the Skyforge Battleaxe, and i will take your head off Imperials and Almeria Dominon elves.

    Written by: Nathan Krow

  99. You storm cloak believers are all wrong on your theories. Let me tell you why you should side with the imperials. If you guys actually read about the Great War, the thalmor captured the imperial city but emperor Titus Mede the second led a brilliant assault which was known as the battle of red ring. They destroyed the main thalmor force even killing lord Naarifin in the process the leader of the thalmor. After the imperials re took the imperial city, they signed the white gold concordat to recoup their forces and rebuild. The thalmor issued the banning of talos because they knew the nords of skyrim would rebel against the empire and they want that. But nooooo, the storm cloaks are being a bunch of cry babies and weakening the empire when they should reunite with them. And another thing, both sides want to prevent from provoking the other. That shows that the thalmor fear the empire and they want to damage the empire as much as possible politically. All hail the empire’

  100. Fact of the matter is, the Imperials are already f**ked when they stopped giving a shite about the gods. It clearly states in the pact that if the lineage should fail, the oblivion gates will open. That’s what happened. It doesn’t matter about the emporer or empire if the gods themselves have abandoned the Imperial dogs to the mercy of the thalmor. It’ll come to every province for themselves in this war.

  101. The ingame book “The Great War” convinced me to join the Empire, it says that the Thalmor (a faction inside the High Elves) have something to do with the Oblivion Crisis (although the High Elves suffered too) to take power in the Aldmeri Dominion and indirectly strike the Empire. Also there was an episode with the disappearance of the two moons, leaving the Khajiit desperate, then suddendly the Thalmor made the moons “return” with magic, causing the Khajiit to view the Thalmor as saviuors and allies. Also, the Thalmor helped a rebel faction inside the Bosmer to overthrow the rulers, making the Bosmer essentially a puppet state for the Thalmor.

    Later the Thalmor knew the Empire would refuse the Treaty they proposed before the war (the Thalmor forces were already positioned in borders with military movements already laid out for a surprise attack anyway) but at the same time they would sting the Nords with the Talos bussiness, making yet another race turn their back on the Empire. The only faction still standing strong is the Redguard because i believe the Thalmor haven’t figured out how to make them turn against the Empire yet, which i think will be the theme for the next TES game.

    The Thalmor (or whoever is behind them, could be a Daedric Prince or a Prime Evil who knows) are just scheming everywhere to rule all of Tamriel, and in the end, the Stormcloaks are playing their game.

  102. Plus the Stormcloaks are heavily racist with the Argonians (i don’t like them too lol) and the Dark Elves in Windhelm, not to mention the massacre on the Forsworn people when they took Markarth. The Forsworn people were actually negotiating with the Emprie to become an independent province, if that would be good or bad in the long run is a different matter, but before Ulfric intervened they were going for the peaceful and righteous way to solve things with the Empire.

  103. Alright now time to throw some more logic into the arguement. I personally agree with Ulfric’s cause and find it to be quite the just one. But I wouldn’t join the stormcloak rebellion! The way that Ulfric is going about returning Skyrim to it’s former glory is awful and poorly planned. Skyrim has two main issues not resulting from it’s own civil war, those being the return of the dragons, and the Thalmor threat. Now… think of how many honorable soldiers of Skyrim are dying as a result of this horrible Civil war between the Imperial armies and the Stormcloak rebellion. By the end of this war, assuming the Stormcloaks come out victorious, the empire as a whole will be terribly weakened. The only reason the Thalmor aren’t slaughtering the Nord armies as it is (If you don’t think it would be a slaughter just look at a battle between the Thalmar Justiciars and a band of Stormcloak Soldiers, the Stormcloaks were wiped out in a matter of seconds when I witnessed my last 3 on 3). Yes… Skyrim has the dragonborn, but in reality the dragonborn is but one person who already has enough on his/her plate due to the rebirth of the dragons, the same dragons who slaughter more and more people with every attack (We can’t go along with game mechanics with this arguement and assume that things only happen within range of our game’s loading radius). Dragons will attack regardless of whether we are around or not and if any of you have watched the other citizens of Skyrim take care of dragons, it isn’t usually a pretty sight. So in theory, if Ulfric is successful in his glorious campaign, Skyrim is doomed to fall under Thalmar rule or to be wiped out in general. Talos worship should be allowed, but one must think of long term effects when devising a strategy to accomplish this goal. I’ve seen a number of imperials with Amulet’s of Talos, to say they are truly against Talos worship is just wrong, just try poking through some people’s inventories sometimes.

  104. Aren’t all the people who vociferously argue in favour of one side or the other completely missing the point about the Big Picture in an Elder Scrolls game- there are NO Right or Wrong decisions.
    Just think for a minute- the reason there are so many reasonable and evidence based arguments for either perspective is down to the brilliance of the game designers. I can’t believe the passion you’ve brought to an argument about the politics of a fantasy world, I suppose as with any great fantasy, it reflects aspects of the real world.
    The Stormcloaks have a Nordic solution to fighting the Thalmor, based on honesty and honour and family/race loyalties. They simply believe it is wrong to bow down to your enemy and secretly plot their destruction whilst kissing their ass. The Imperials have an Imperial solution, based on deception and strategy, telling the enemy what they want to hear whilst hoping for a moment of weakness. The Thalmor are quite clear that they do not want either side to win as a lengthy and protracted Civil War is most in their interests for weakening Skyrim and mankind. They clearly engineered the Civil War, and if the DB helps EITHER side win it will harm their interests in the long run as they are good at pretending they are stronger than they actually are and need to bide their time before attempting another invasion.
    So stop stressing about who is right or wrong and just pick the side that reflects your own or your character’s approach to conflict.

  105. I too believe you should indeed join the imperials. I’ll do my best to try to explain why, and I want to apologize for any spelling and/or grammar mistakes.

    WHY BAN TALOS?
    We start of with the very reason the Thalmor banned the worship of Talos. They want to return to their godhood. They think that they’re ascendants from gods and that Lorkhan (Shor) stole their godhood and trapped them in mortality. Talos is said to mantle Lorkhan, who is the missing god. Since men think they owe their existance to Lorkhan, it’s no surprise the Thalmor wants to ban worship of him, because their plan to achieve godhood is to destroy all men. To do that they have to erase the very idea of men. They first have to erase Talos, then let Alduin devour the world and all men. Only then can they achieve godhood.

    THE PLAN
    When Alduin returns, he feeds on souls sent to Sovngarde. When any nord is killed in the war, Alduin grows stronger. Therefore, the war must go on and this is really what the Thalmor want. That neither side wins.. However, if Alduin fails, the Stormcloaks must win, because the Imperials is between the Nords and the Thalmor. If the empire is forced to retreat some of its legions from the coastline, they will weaken their defenses and the Thalmor and their supporters can much more easily fight the imperials.

    TALOS WORSHIP BANNED (And why you can’t use the thu’um in war)
    Furthermore, the empire itself don’t want worship of Talos to be banned. Quite the opposite really, but to prevent bloodshed, they had to aggree to this treaty. And to the guy who said that “And what if Ulfric teaches his warriors to shout?”, I have a simple answer. The voice was given to them by Kynareth, who will not tolerate abuse of the voice, and will punish those who do abuse it. Abuse could be for example to use it in war. This is why Jurgen Windcaller lost by the way. And if you want to know why the dragonborn you play as can use the voice as he pleases, it’s because he was not given the power by Kynareth, but by Akatosh.

    TALOS WORSHIP (Unrelated)
    Now, the last thing i will say is relatively unrelated, but it has to do with Talos becoming a god. First we’ll look at some of the evidence we have.
    EVIDENCE THAT HE IS A GOD
    1. The blood of Talos is used to make a portal which needs the blood of an actual divine.
    2. He is not in Sovngarde. Some may say that he’s a breton, but that highly unlikely, even though he wasn’t born in Skyrim, he lived to the age of 120. Bretons usually don’t go over 60, while Nords usually reach 80-85 if they die of old age. Therefore it’s not impossible that he was a Breton, but it’s more likely that he was a Nord.
    3. He mantled another being, which is an actual thing in TES universe. In this case, he mantled a Lorkhan, who is a missing god. (Not sure he can be called a god, since he technically isn’t dead, but took form of the moons. Only daedra’s can’t die. God’s can die.) Mantling means that you walk like someone until they walk like you, or you do as they do, until you do the exact same thing as the other, and “become” the other person.

    EVIDENCE THAT HE IS NOT A GOD (Can’t remember every evidence here, I’m very sorry)
    1. He is a Breton. It’s unlikely when you look at his age, but he was born in Alcaire.
    2. Mankar Camoran says that Lorkhan is not one of the divines, but a daedra, which sort of makes sense when he explains it towards the end of Oblivion.

    IT’S YOUR CHOICE + My personal opinion
    Hope any of this helps you decide and remember that it’s up to you if you want to believe what the Mer think is right or what the Men think is right. Bethesda has not given any correct answer to who is right, but rather given us the options, the evidence and now it’s up to us to choose what we believe is right. Personally I believe that if you want the Men to win, go for Imperial, but if you support the Thalmor, then choose the Stormcloaks. There’s a reason that you are given a choice but no evidence that is strong enough to prove the other part wrong.
    Sorry for a long text and any bad English.

    • I just got finished playing the main quest of Oblivion this past week and came back to this post just to see if anyone had remembered the bit about how Martin Septim needed the “blood of a god” in order to open the portal to Mankar’s Paradise, and therefore they used Talos’ armor from when he was a man before ascending.. I heard Mankar explain about the daedra=gods bit, but I think he just might be confused, since it is the Xarxes itself (if I recall correctly), not Mankar’s commentaries, that says the portal must be opened using the blood of a god. And clearly, the blood of Talos DID open the portal, so that should be evidence enough that Talos is an actual god, making the Thalmor claim complete rubbish..

      • Thank you… someone who actually played the previous elder scroll game…. ie the elder scrolls iv oblivion…. you have the knoledge that very few people on this comment section have… another good point against the imperials from oblivion is that all the imperial fans will be devestated to learn that the empire will never be resored… the will be destroyed because akatosh (a divine that the imperials do believe in) said to the septim bloodline:” if no heir of our joined blood should wear the amulet of kings, then shall the empire decend into darkness…” also you imperials deny that talos is a god but you agree to the high elf belief that ALL HIGH ELVES ARE GODS…. not at the moment but they believe that by destroying humanity that their godhood would be restored….. wow no one man can become a god but an entire race of elves can become gods…. your reasoning is brilliant… I applaud you people (sarcastic applaude) and finally all you that say ulfric is a racist… I dont see any khajiit or argonians in the imperial army…. nor do I see high elf or wood elf… I have seen one dark elf and one red gaurd… so who is the racist now?

  106. Personally, I’d go with the Empire, for four reasons.
    To find out the first, I’d suggest you take a walk around Windhelm and chat to a few of the Dark Elves. Their lives are hell. The Stormcloaks are utterly, irredemably cruel to them, and I overheard a conversation where a Nord accused a young Dark Elf woman of siding with the Empire, even though it’s ridiculously apparant she’s not, and threatens to torture her. That’s your rebel faction right there–a bunch of redneck racists with an “us or them” mentality and a tendency for extreme violence. Now imagine if Stormcloaks were in charge all over Skyrim. Imagine the persecution all the Elves would suffer, whether they’re for the Thalmor or not. I’d say it would border on genocide, and could extend to the Khajiit, Argonians and Bretons as well.

    The second is Ulfric Stormcloak himself. The man is, quite simply, a giant d*ck. Ulfric wants to be able to worship Talos. I can understand that, but worship is worship. I’m sure that Talos will hear him just as clearly from the privacy of his own home or some wayshrine in the wilderness as he will in a proper chapel. .

    Third reason is one that most people state. The only possible way for Tamriel to resist another Elven invasion is with a united people under a united government. Ulfric Stormcloak is a racist who has already segregated the Dark Elves and the Argonians, which personally would be the first races I’d try to get on my side (Black Marsh and Morrowind would be very good defensive points). There is no way in hell that those guys would work with Ulfric in anything. A divided enemy is a weak enemy.

    The fourth reason is quite simple. The Empire works. It gave provinces a reasonable amount of self-governance but still provided enough stability to prevent them from killing each other. That guy that Ulfric’s so desperate to worship? Talos? Wasn’t he Tiber Septim? Wasn’t he an Emperor? Didn’t he spend a lot of effort on ensuring that Skyrim was part of the Empire? Seems to me that if you’re really a big believer in him then you’d do everything you could to support the Empire.
    Damn nice write-up with some very solid points. In Oblivion if one so desired to seek it out there was plenty of information about Tiber Septim.

    What I find most confusing about Ulfric and those who support him is this…

    Martin Septim ruled his people by doing for them what they needed istead of what he necessarily desired. As a man he would not save himself if it meant sacrificing his people. In fact he knew exactly where and when he was going to die and chose not to run from it. He actually explains this to the Hero of Kvatch as well as his reasoning. He always thought of his people first. Ulfric is self serving and he uses Talos to hide his true aim. Ulfric wants war and as a true Nord that is acceptable but not in Talos’ name.

    The idea of killing even a single person in the name of Talos goes directly against everything Tiber believed and represented.

  107. I personally joined the Empire because I believe Ulfric was racist, harsh, and wanted all the power for himself. That being said, I also assassinated the emperor and whenever I come across Thalmor I intimidate then kill them(very easy for me). I also tend to attack the Thalmor Embassy often with Odaviing because, well, I can. I’m on no side really..I enjoy killing both if have to.

  108. I’m literally the only person I know who ever played Skyrim and consistently supports the Empire over the Stormcloaks (the only reason I play the Stormcloaks anymore is to test them out for my mod). That said, I’m also the only person I know who put much thought into who I was siding with and why.

    In my first save, I sided with the Empire purely by picking at random. I began reading various in-game books such as (one of my personal favourites) the Bear of Markarth, and pro-Stormcloak ones also, the only one I can remember by name is the Scourge of the Gray Quarter. I do remember that the pro-Stormcloak books struck me as illogical and based mostly on emotion, opinion and political sentiment, and almost void of facts or mention of any specific events or evidence that would validate their almost religious ramblings about Ulfric’s cause. But the Imperial books on the Great War, Ulfric’s war crimes in Markarth, the current war, while obviously also biased, they at least had facts to base their bias upon. They also cast light on a side of the Empire that it seems to me Ulfric deliberately tries to downplay – that they too hate the Thalmor, and are simply forced to put up with them for now, until they gather their forces and make plans to strike back and renounce the White-Gold Concordat.

    I simply do not see any compelling arguments to fight for the Stormcloaks, and it surprises me they can’t see that they’re playing right into the Thalmor’s hands by dividing the Empire, ready for them to conquer. I can’t take seriously a group who are destroying their god’s creation, in his own name, absurdly.

  109. Well my opinion in all of this hardly matters but here it is.

    I think the Imperials are good people and are very tactical in their decisions. They done the right thing by accepting the peace treaty to regain their stregnth and fight the thalmor once again at a later date. Just to get this clear for you, when the Imperials fight back, it won’t be anything like order 66, it will be another war and nothing more. The Stormcloaks, although being stubborn, are very honourable people and I can clearly see why they are willing to fight back against the thalmor. They chose to stand and fight honourably against the thalmor and were misguided by Ulfric into thinking the Imperials were the true enemy and had betrayed them. The ban of talos in my opinion is a great reason to be fighting the thalmor and thats why I like the Stormcloaks.

    General Tullius is a great man, much better than Ulfric Stormcloak who is obviously using the ban of talos to further his desire to become the high king of skyrim. Ulfric’s very smart on what he’s doing though. He’s managed to rally troops to his side and took half of skyrim from the empire, who should really be winning if they think they even stand a chance against the Dominion. General Tullius, however, seems to be the better man and is gaining the upper hand in all of the fighting. He is a man that knows what he wants and truely wants to end the fighting.

    As for Ulfric killing the high king, his reasons were wrong but everything he done was honourable. The Imperials lie to gain support for their cause and say that Ulfric murdered the high king, that was unhonourable and wrong but I see why they’re doing it (I still don’t like it). So I lay on Ulfric’s side on that matter.

    The thalmor think it is heracy to worship Talos, they may be right. But why does it matter who people worship? If they’re worshipping a man, who cares? They should worship whoever they want!

    But overall, in skyrim, I would say that I always give my allegience to the Stormcloaks for their reasonings and honour. But Ulfric can go ***** himself. Imperials have a good say in the matter, but if they truely wish to defeat the thalmor, surely the wiser strategy would be for the imperials to pull out of skyrim and leave the nords to wear off the thalmor and while they are distracted, the Imperials can grow stronger and join the Stormcloaks side against the Dominion? I dunno, but that’s what I would have done in the Emporor’s situation.

    • SPOILER ALERT

      Has anyone here actually bothered reading the Thalmor dossiers? Remember those leather-bound files you retrieve from the Thalmor embassy? Yeah those. In the dossiers the THALMOR themselves, not some bystander, calls Ulfric an asset (however dormant and unresponsive) and scetches a bit concerning his background in the Great War, which makes for some serious skeletons in his closet. They also stress the fact that an Imperial victory has to be avoided by them at all cost, hinting that the Empire is still being considered a threat. The Thalmor are 100% behind the Stormcloak rebellion, which they know is further weakening an already weak Empire, even though they don’t want the Stormcloaks to win the war, either. Gotta hand it to those elves, they play a mean chess game. Whoever comes out on top of the whole rebellion issue will be weakened and in no state to fend off legions of Aldmer wizards/battlemages. Had there been an option to make peace between the two factions (and please don’t mention that damn worthless, temporary weapons-standstill the Greybeards achieved), perhaps then the might of the Aldmeri Dominion might have been truly threatened. As it stands, I personally feel that the whole rebellion questline was pretty lopsided. Either kill Tullius and pave the way for Ulfric to become High King, or kill Ulfric and allow the Empire free reign in Skyrim. Either ending leaves a weakened Empire for the Aldmeri Dominion to smash, while a true alliance could have been formed to ensure their downfall. Personally I don’t see any point in considering the Aldmeri Dominion when you make your decision. I choose sides depending on how I feel at the time. I’ve fought for both sides, countless times, heck I’ve even left it at the Greybeards’ weapons-standstill just to pretend the Empire and the Stormcloaks came to some kind of agreement. Choosing the Empire is a bad idea seeing as they’re already weak and policing an unruly province like Skyrim just won’t help with that. Also, I just hate how Oengul and Hermir hates you if you do go the Empire route. After all, if you join Ulfric, the only ones who hate you are the deposed Jarls and their lackeys, who all end up downstairs in the Blue Palace where you never even have to look at them once, if you don’t want to. However, I’m particularly fond of Irileth, so her wanting to stab me in the throat kinda sucks. Tactically (because in-game nothing happens) what makes the Stormcloaks a bad choice is the possibility of an alliance between Cyrodiil, Hammerfell and High Rock, which might in turn just lead to yet another war on the Stormcloak homefront, coupled with the ever-present threat of the Aldmeri Dominion. I’m not too worried about the elves, though, since Nords have been known throughout history to be fierce, fearsome warriors (read “Battle of Sancre Tor”) and Skyrim as a country is particularly hard on invading armies (as was Russia on the Nazi’s in WW2). Which on the other hand increases the need for peace between Skyrim and Cyrodiil. Rant over. -_-

  110. If the stormcloaks are just a clutter of untrained rebel how have the empire not crushed them yet, and btw the empire techencly only consits of two provencis cyridoil and high rock, i can also guess the bretons wont stay in the empire very long

  111. Let’s clear up any confusion…
    The White-Gold Concordat:
    -Name of the treaty between the Aldmeri Dominion and the Empire which ended the Great War.
    -Highly favored the AD promising the disbandment of the Blades (the Emperor’s security force and former dragon slayers), monetary tribute, relinquishment of territory, the prohibition of Talos worship, and free reign throughout the Empire to ensure these terms are adhered to.

    Stormcloaks:
    -Seek independence from the Empire, which they believe has become ineffective having submitted to so many of the Admeri Dominion’s demands.
    -They loath the Thalmor, who are enforcers of the White-Gold Concordat and who serve, as what could be considered a secret police to, the Altmer (High Eleven) government, the Aldmeri Dominion.

    Imperials:
    -Seek to appeal to the Aldmeri Dominion’s demands stated in the White-Gold Concordat (prevent Talos worship)
    -Strengthen the Empire. In order to end the Great War, between the Empire and the Admeri Dominion, the Empire signed a treaty known as the White-Gold Concordat. During the war, the Empire abandoned their province of Hammerfell (Hammerfell would continue to battle the AD and would later achieve victory) and was left with the provinces of Cyrodil, Skyrim, and (I believe) Morrowind. Not only this, but the Empire was almost entirely crippled by the war and thus the AD had plenty of time to gain power and strength.

    Now that that’s cleared up, the following states are targeted towards everyone debating Imperial vs Stormcloak:
    The Empire was not foolish or weak for signing the treaty, in fact the Empire had recently won a major victory against the AD which resulted in the latter questioning its power. The Empire was choosing to “live to fight another day” which is a decision between being proud and being practical. Had the war not ended, both sides would have been decimated. The Empire does not support Talos worship for the sole reason that the treaty forbids it. When Markarth was under an Imperial supported jarl and also under threat by the Forsworn, Ulfric Stormcloak and his Nords aided in saving Markarth. the Empire arrived to restore order following the Markarth Incident and the Nords demanded acceptance of Talos worship. the Empire agreed and later the AD learned of this. The AD threatened to resume the war and the Empire had to arrest Ulfric to keep peace. This submission by the Empire to the AD was interpreted as weakness by the Nords and led to the founding of the Stormcloak Rebellion. Ulfric may or may not be justified in starting the rebellion. On the one hand, the Empire was attempting to prevent war. On the other hand, all Empire must meet their end and clearly the Empire could not defend against the AD. Arguments can be made that a union of nations as an empire could better withstand the AD, but then Hammerfell was victorious. But regardless of one’s thoughts, Skyrim is part of the Empire and successful of not, the Stormcloaks are by definition traitors.
    Also, it is a popular belief that Ulfric and the Stormcloaks are racist. They are not actually. They more readily accept fellow Nords (people stereotype as a defense mechanism [not that it is the right thing to do], look it up) but do turn away recruits of other races. Originally Skyrim was populated by Nords. The Imperials are foreigners and caused problems for the Nords so other foreigners would not be trusted. And most of the other foreigners are magic users. Nords distrust magic as the AD are magic users. Just remember that whichever side you choose, whether you want to strengthen an Empire or forge a new independent nation, the Aldmeri Dominion is the true enemy. Unless of course you’re a High Elf 😈. Malacath witness our deeds!

  112. The Aldmeri Dominion IS the true enemy, but what is causing divergence of valuable resources and manpower? The Stormcloaks. To start off, The East Empire Company is the most prosperous and is the main trading company in all of Tamriel. It provides 90% of the continent’s trade(and no Skyrim is not the other 10%, its Elsweyr.). The EEC also only acts under the direct authority of guess who? The Empire. So take away Skyrim’s trading influence and main source of supplies and your people starve. Next let’s talk about Skyrim’s secession. I’m going to start with the most common statement that is “Hammerfell would make an alliance with Skyrim and together they would destroy the AD!” Hahaha NO. Actually before we continue, let me point out the fact that yes Hammerfell won against their war with the AD. It was not won however without the Empire’s assistance. They did pull out due to the White-Gold Concordat, however they did not due so until after numerous battles within Hammerfell already. So yes, the Empire did leave, but at that point the AD was exhausted and all the Redgaurds had to do was brush away the remnants. Back on track, Skyrim’s secession would be a separation of the Empire, therefor leaving it vulnerable to invasion. “BUT WAIT” The Redgaurds would be there to fight them off with the Nords!” I here you say. Do you honestly think that Hammerfell, a province that is a desert wasteland with little to almost no growth of crops and 0 trade along with their exhaustion of the war and countless dead are going to send troops on a LONG trek to Skyrim where they will be susceptible to the cold and leave themselves defenseless? Not to mention that as soon as Skyrim leaves the Empire, the AD will immediately invade. Therefor by the time the Redgaurds arrive (If they even do come) Skyrim would have lost and Hammerfell would be defenseless. OOPS. Your treaty is just a piece of paper. not a hope. Now let’s jump to religion. Dang it, I cant remember that guys name! He was a Nord, a Hero, he united all the provinces, he became a divine and he founded the Empire. Oh what is his name again? Oh yea, TIBER SEPTIM! The Empire never stopped believing in Talos, Let alone enforce it. The only reason they did have to, is because Ulfric made a big deal out of it during The Markarth Incident.(Read the previous comment) The Empire had to break their promise to him, otherwise the war would have restarted and the Empire would have lost, resulting in Tamriels downfall. Let me be PERFECTLY clear that the Empire would have lost.

    So let’s see….
    Trade: check
    Food: check
    Treaty: check
    Reinforcements: check
    Religion: check
    Outcome…….. Welcome to the United Provinces Of Mer!

    I can rant on about this all day, but as a Imperial General iv’e got to plant the next war on the Aldmeri Dominion and help ensure our victory and prosperity.

    All hail the Emperor, Titus Meed II!
    All hail the Empire and it’s Legionnaires!
    All hail the NINE DIVINES!

    If you have statements or questions to make then tell me, i will do my best to answer/debate.

  113. Well…. WHY would anyone side with the Imperials?? They were the ones trying to guillotine all our asses at the VERY BEGINNING of Skyrim lolz! Allying with people who tried to kill you is plain stupid.

  114. You see THAT right there is the kind of inconsiderate arrogance that I have come to loath. Tell me, do you think the Stormcloaks would have done it any differently? True that captain is cruel and downright deserved to die, however if you spent all of this time, effort and resources, sacrificing good men and women to a pointless conflict and you FINALLY capture the leader, wouldn’t you 1. want to kill him as quickly as possible before any rescue attempt could be made? 2. Capture anyone who supports him INCLUDING a somewhat shady person who happened to suspiciously be within the same area as him? 3. Just execute all of them instead of having to file weeks of paperwork just to have that person likely run off to support the enemy anyway? True the third point sounds cruel, but placing yourself in that position what would you do? Don’t deny, you would do ALL of the above.

    But regardless, to be considerate and understanding as well as forgiving is a better result then running in to die for a picture with a splash of paint that is called art. Analogically, I’m stating that Ulfric is claiming one accusation for multiple self-indulging reasons. Honestly though, if you cant see that Ulfric is hiding behind the pretentious slander of Tiber Septim’s outlawd worship, using it as a rally, then i’m sorry but not even Jesus can cure your blindness. :/

    Even if you do realize that and your claim is to “fight for the freedom of skyrim”, then your just about as misleading and blind as Ulfric is. I explain why in my previous comment.

    Also as an EDIT to my first part of the reply, yes while it is left to your imagination why your character is there and who he/she is, 3 things are perfectly clear. 1. You were crossing the border. 2. You stumbled upon and got unintentionally(or if you prefer, intentionally) involved in the ambush to capture Ulfric Stoarmcloak. 3. You were captured by the Empire.

    P.S. Tullies actually apologizes to you anyways when you meet him again and what does Ulfric do?
    (@_@) “Who are you? What are you doing here? Pff It’s not like i survived a dragon attack with you or anything…. Oh Wait! I remember you! Yes! You were at Helgen! (*.*) Speak with Galmar, he handles the new recruits.” (-_-)

    Disclaimer: I exaggerated quite a bit and he doesn’t actually say that, but that is basically the implication….

    Long live The Empire!

  115. I support the Empire because, call me eccentric but I think uniting to make a stand against a powerful empire of extremist eleven war criminals is more important than crying about which one of your (excessive) 9 gods you temporarily can’t legally worship. Because yeah, last I checked, survival is more important than theology, especially when there are 8 more gods you can get busy worshiping in the meantime.

  116. Really late to the party, though a few thoughts in support of the Stormcloaks:

    First off:

    Hammerfell successfully seceded from the Empire and thus removed all Aldmeri Dominion/Thalmor influence from the Province. Skyrim’s Stormcloaks stand a very good chance and accomplishing the same.

    By being independent Provinces they have a huge advantage over the Empire.

    As while the Empire most probably is waiting for its chance to strike back…..they’ve lost too much for that to be feasible.

    With Thalmor Embassies, and AD influence/agents in every Province, in every council (including the negotiations at High Hrothgar), and they are quite capable of gathering any information they deem relevant. The fact they could locate Esbern (presumed to be dead) inside Riften’s Ratway is just one of many examples of their ability to stay abreast of all information.

    So there’s no way the Empire could make an attempt against the Thalmor/AD without being discovered and silenced instantly.

    An independent Province with no Imperial or Thalmor/AD influence/agents at all though? Now they would stand a chance of making a coordinated effort that the Thalmor/AD wouldn’t be able to predict/prevent.

    Not to mention they could inspire other rebellions (such as Hammerfell likely did with the Stormcloaks and Skyrim) thus further weakening the Empire, and thus the Thalmor/AD’s hold on Tamriel.

    At this point they could eventually dissolve the Empire into a group of independent Provinces over time making it extremely difficult for the Thalmor/AD to control, predict, or prevent…..and thus offer a much greater chance of victory in the inevitable second Great War.

    Especially as these independent Provinces would not be lazy the way the Empire was prior to the Great War, and they would have much greater numbers as individuals all over Tamriel have tasted Thalmor/AD tyranny and hate it…thus would be willing to take up arms, when before the Great War…they wouldn’t.

    Not to mention that the covenant Akatosh made clearly said that once the Dragon Fires went out..the Empire would fall. The Empire is simply a lost cause at this point, and a new system needs to be implemented.

    As a closing point:

    Some words from a supposed manifestation of Talos himself concerning the preferable fate of the Empire:

    “The Emperor is getting old. Don’t know how much longer he’ll hang on. So is the whole Empire, for that matter. Getting old, that is. The Emperor and the legions have held the Empire together for hundreds of years. It’s been a good thing, by and large. But maybe it’s time for a change. Time for something young and new. What? No idea. Because I’m old. Old dog doesn’t get new ideas. But maybe young folks like you should try some new ideas. I don’t know. Could be messy. But change is never pretty.”

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